Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:02 Everybody, welcome to the Fit Founders podcast. I'm sued your host, and today I'm joined by a very special guest, Mr. Aaron McCulloch from your pt. Thanks for joining me, Aaron.
Speaker 1 00:00:12 No worries. Thanks having me on, mate.
Speaker 0 00:00:15 Not at all. It's a pleasure. Um, obviously joining this chat, we're gonna talk through, you know, your career in the industry, what you're up to today with your PT and what the future holds. But for anyone that doesn't know who you are, you wanna just give a, you know, a brief overview of, you know, who you are and, and what you do.
Speaker 1 00:00:32 Yeah, sure. Um, so my name's Erin McCulloch. I'm the co-owner and managing director of your personal training. Um, so your personal training is the leading provider of kind of end-to-end PT solutions for gym operators around the uk and we have a, a few international partners as well.
Speaker 0 00:00:52 Amazing. So let's talk about kind of what, what led to where you are today and, and this current role. So how did you first enter the industry? Was it, was it always the plan, become a personal trainer and then coach and then CEO of a, of a company within the industry?
Speaker 1 00:01:12 Uh, no <laugh>. Um, I don't, I don't think I've met anyone that that's how anything started or what, or what the objective is to, to kind of start with. Um, I, I mean like, I guess a lot of people when I was a bit younger, I just wanted to be a professional footballer, was in various academy, stuff like that. Um, got to the age of 15, realized I wasn't good enough, um, and probably was never gonna be. So I, I started kind of looking at other careers in, you know, law, criminology, um, ended up, um, decided to join the armed forces, like I grew up as a military brat, so it was kind of, I guess most people expect you to do that anyway. Um, and I got to a certain point, um, just before I was, was 21 where I was kind of given some advice by, um, some of the doctors with the various injuries and, and damage that had kind of caused my body.
Speaker 1 00:02:01 It was a case of you've got two options, carry on, sit at a desk, possibly end up in a wheelchair by the time you're 30 because you just keep breaking stuff, um, or leave and find something else to do. Um, and I didn't join the military to sit behind a desk and sort people's post and or end up in a wheelchair, to be fair. Um, that was, that's never the objective. Um, so I actually ended up doing a personal training course with premier training, I think, which is pretty much where everyone even the military was doing at, at that point, if they wanted to go into fitness. But it was more of just learning how to look after my body. So I ended up with like a degenerative disc disease, a kind of fractured rib, dislocated shoulders, fractured my femur, all that kind of stuff. Like in a, in a wonderful two and a half year period. Um, and during my course realized that I actually quite liked it, um, and thought it's something that I might like to do and, and maybe do as a career. So, um, you know, I went to a few interviews when I was doing my course. I finished a course on a Friday, um, and started working as a self-employed personal trainer the following Monday at Fitness First in Norwich. Um, so just literally went straight into the deep end.
Speaker 0 00:03:14 And, and how were those first few months or the first year or so of being a self-employed pt?
Speaker 1 00:03:22 Absolute nightmare. Um, you know, I was, I was quite lucky in the fact that there was a, a couple of, of the successful PTs that that kind of took me under their wing as such. Like, I used to ask 'em a lot of questions and things like that, but, you know, I was, I think I was personal trainer number 22 or 23 in that club. Um, wow. And there was around about 1800 members. So, but at that time, completely normal. That was just how it was and it was very, like, you had to be a bit of a shark at times. Um, so it was a bit like a revolving door of, of personal trainers. There was someone new coming in every, every couple of weeks, or like a new group would start every couple of months and personal trainers would leave. And it was very sort of catty and, and back stabby at that point, if that's a phrase.
Speaker 1 00:04:14 Um, but like I said, the, the two that I've kind of latched onto kind of really sort of helped me understand why I should be doing what they did to get to. They were doing like 34 hours a week each. Um, and it took me about four and a half months to get to the same point. So I, I managed to do it quite quickly in probably a gym that I shouldn't have been able to. But when kind of turnover's so high, you know, people end up going, well, you know, you've been here like the third longest now, like, you're not going anywhere, are you? So sometimes you just sort of collected clients from others leaving as well as doing your own work. Um, and I spent a lot of time going to a lot of local businesses and events like wedding shops, stuff like that, and just trying to sort of get to their customer base as well, just through various bits I've been kind of told to do. Um, so I was there for about a year and then I moved to your personal training, um, literally flipped, still self-employed pt, but I went from being at like a fitness first in a city to a leisurer center in what was described as a floral town of Be and Edmonds
Speaker 0 00:05:19 <laugh>. Brilliant. What made you, so for those, for people that don't really understand what your PT is, why is it, can you just explain it from a, a personal trainer's perspective?
Speaker 1 00:05:29 Yeah, so from, from a PTs perspective, it is a, um, sort of management coaching and and mentoring business. Um, so for gyms, they don't really know, well, I say they don't really, they don't know at all how to sort of nurture, build and maintain like a good personal training team or let alone offer a really good service. And personal trainers when they kind of start as, as you kind of know, are, are not really trained adequately enough by the training providers to kind of prepare them for, you know, any aspect, whether that's kind of marketing, communications, um, even programming to, to a decent level. So what we kind of offer clubs is like an external management service that recruits markets and supports the PTs. And for the personal trainers, they kind of, for them, they kind of know they're working with people that have been in their position, in their gyms, have made it work, um, and can kind of keep them on the right path, but also make sure they start on the right path to begin with anyway. Um, so we kind of covered it from, from both sides.
Speaker 0 00:06:45 Amazing. So you are already doing pretty well. What, what makes you decide that you want to go and get the support?
Speaker 1 00:06:54 Um, I think the, yeah, the where I was and what I was doing at kind of fitness first at the time I just felt like it was quite restricted, so I didn't really think I could go beyond what I was doing. And when I kind of spoke to the, the team at your personal training at the time and why I moved over there, there was more support and more opportunities. So it was almost like joining a startup at the time because if you're in at the ground floor as that grows, potentially you could grow with it. Um, and that's pretty much what I did, um, up until like the pandemic as it kind of grew, um, because I was more one of the kind of more, one of the successful PTs, um, I was like helping trainers around me cuz I just didn't like the, where I was before, it was a bit of a revolving door and I was like, well, I'd quite like to keep these people on. I quite like these other trainers so I wanna help them out. And I was just doing it just to be nice. Um, and then that became more of like an official capacity and then I'm kind of taking more and more responsibility as the years went on from there as well.
Speaker 0 00:08:00 When you, um, just rolling it back a little bit, when you left the military mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you became a self-employed personal trainer, did, was it ever in your mind that you are kind of pursuing an entrepreneurial career or was it just very organically, I'm gonna be a personal trainer in entrepreneurship business ownership wasn't really a thought or, or was that, you know, a purposeful decision?
Speaker 1 00:08:22 That's a good question. So there was, there was a really, really simple version of, uh, you know, story of like why I want to become self-employed. When you're in the military, you told what to do 24 hours a day and it gets quite grating. Um, so I wanted to do something where I would have more control over what I was doing and more control over the direction. Um, and also like my time basically. So it was doing the opposite of what I'd done for a number of years before that.
Speaker 0 00:08:53 Amazing, okay. So personal training is going well. You've joined this team at your personal training where you're now getting additional responsibility, you're helping more personal trainers. Um, how do we get from there to you now, you know, owning the company effectively?
Speaker 1 00:09:15 Yeah, so I think as the, as the kind of years progressed and I was going through kind of various positions of being like a PT support manager and then maybe like a regional PT manager, I then became, um, and I actually created the position for myself and others of like having a team of regional directors who were responsible for like, the wider economy of what was going on. So not just dealing with personal trainers, but with clients coming up with processes, um, whether that was for recruitment retention, business blueprints for PTs, um, troubleshooting that kind of thing and, and kind of doing a little bit more. Um, and that even came to a point of, you know, I think that's when I started realizing that I quite like creating and building things, um, and I kind of hunt opportunities down. So I was like, well, I think this could be better for the company and we can do a better job and we can do X, Y, Z.
Speaker 1 00:10:12 We've not really moved anywhere in the last two years. If I don't say something then we're all gonna get stuck and everyone will suffer. So I kind of thought if we can make it better for everybody, this is what needs to happen. And then almost put myself and others in a position to be able to, to do that. Um, and as soon as that was accepted by the previous, uh, kind of owner and and md it kind of made me think that sometimes I might actually have a good idea. Um, and that kind of leads me then to doing more of what I do now. Um, and obviously just I guess maybe gave me a bit more self-confidence and belief that I actually knew what I was doing and potentially could go a lot further. Um, but I don't even think at that point the word entrepreneurship or, or anything even entered my mind. I don't even think I used that word until maybe a couple of years ago.
Speaker 0 00:11:05 Okay. So in terms of, you know, hand, you know, sharing as much as as you can share, um, what were the, the weeks or the month like that you know, you took over your, your PT and your personal trainings?
Speaker 1 00:11:29 Yeah, so, um, I guess I think generally for a lot of people, the, obviously we, we went into the pandemic I think kind of towards like mid end to March, 2020, didn't we. Um, and when gyms closed down, obviously all of our personal trainers were based in gyms, stuff like that. Um, then you kind of had to adapt quite quickly. So myself and, and, and one of the other, um, regional directors at the time who's actually now my business partner and obviously cos your personal training with me in the academy, um, kind of came together and we thought like, if we don't keep helping trainers kind of every transition online, give them somewhere to check in every week just to make sure they're okay. If that all goes to ship for them, we are gonna come back to nothing. So if we don't help them, we won't have a job in four weeks, six weeks, six months time, however this was, was gonna last.
Speaker 1 00:12:22 Um, and also I think from a selfish perspective, from, from our point of view, it was almost like this might also keep us sane and we might actually learn something along the way, um, to kind of be able to help trainers more and, and obviously just keep it going. So we, we did like weekly check-ins and all that kind of stuff. Um, we set up like private Facebook groups for trainers, um, kind of pointed them in the right direction for the few people and, and actually I think at that point that's when I came across you actually and kind of took on and, and sort of read some of your content and pointed trainings in that direction and sent them links to like videos and um, and Facebook groups and things like that because obviously you've been doing online coaching, you know, way longer than I ever had.
Speaker 1 00:13:03 Um, and obviously some of the things you had in place were very, very helpful. Um, some of them to the detriment because some PTs left cuz they had full on online businesses by about July <laugh>. It's alright. Sorry about that. It worked and it worked too well, I think. Um, yes, sorry, I'll, um, I, I've gone over it I think just about now. I mentioned it so I haven't got, um, but yeah, so, you know, we wanted to do a little bit more and then we got to, um, the week before Jims were due to reopen in, I believe it's towards the end of July in 2020. Um, and we, we got sat on a Zoom call, um, and effectively the, the owner and, and obviously MD at the time was just thought like the world was gonna collapse. Like it's not gonna go any further.
Speaker 1 00:13:47 Like we're, we're never gonna recover it to what we were doing before. So I'm gonna close the company. That call lasted less than three minutes. Um, so effectively we were like, oh shit, like a week's time or two weeks time, we, we might be out of a job. Um, and you know, a couple of weeks before that, myself and James, um, who obviously, like I said, my business partner's also the operations director at, at your pt. Um, because of what we were doing, we were like, we can do a better job than what's going on at the minute, your pt. So we actually structured a plan to almost like an MBO for that Christmas. So we thought we'll keep working on this plan, we'll get our kind of ducks in a row and we'll, we'll make an offer to, to take the company at the end of the year.
Speaker 1 00:14:40 Cuz we kind of had a sense that the existing owner was kind of like even a couple months before that just kind of done, just wasn't interested canceling like weekly team meetings with the senior management team, et cetera. Um, but we just kind of carried on and, and kept doing what we said we were gonna do and, and keep our promise to the trainers of obviously kind of, you know, keeping in touch with them and keeping 'em updated with various things from the government and what that meant for the industry, simsbury, et cetera. Um, and what advice we were getting. Um, and there was kind of angel investors involved in, in the business beforehand and one of them was actually a client and it was a client I actually used to look after, so it was kind of Jim in, in Manchester. Um, so he kind of rang me up and he was like, yeah, I've just heard.
Speaker 1 00:15:24 And he was like, what are you doing? And I said, well, me and James are gonna carry on. We're gonna take all the gyms that we were working with previously and we're gonna work with them on our own. Um, and he just went, great, do you wanna do it together? So what we ended up doing in the next two weeks was buying out your personal training. Um, and that's it. Two and a half years ago we, we took over the company, so the old kind of ownership and, and MD and stuff had completely gone at that point. Um, sat down with the, the team that we had, um, and told 'em what we were doing, what the plans were for the business. Um, you know, we had an initial kind of recovery plan, if you like, in terms of like gyms were just about to open.
Speaker 1 00:16:09 Um, obviously we were gonna move things back up. We were gonna change a few things, uh, people were going into different positions. Um, we found some of the staff, we looked at some of the stuff that they were doing and found they were completely useless and getting paid more than anybody else. So they obviously went quite quickly. Um, and then we kind of started to build or rebuild or remodel the company, should I say, on a completely different set of values and create a different culture that we felt would allow people to be more expressive and, and allow things to, to grow beyond what they could have done before. And also just create a better environment for everybody.
Speaker 0 00:16:51 Amazing. I'm, I'm assuming that at the time when you got the news that the company or the, the former MD was done, it was, it was a pretty big shock. And what would be interesting to know is, was there a negative impact on the business? I'm, I'm assuming you'd have to speak with all your partners, the gyms that you work with, and has the company recovered since then? Is it in a stronger position? Has it grown?
Speaker 1 00:17:15 Yeah, so the good, good question. Uh, first one, so actually it was a sense of relief Sure. Because I was like, finally, I know what's happening with my, with me. I know what I'm gonna do now. Like, you know, my, myself and James are obviously making this kind of MBO plan. Um, and it was like, well, should we just do it now? Um, the clients, uh, and things we've kind of, you know, spoken to the, I think the fortunate thing for that and, and maybe the unfortunate thing for the old owner is that relationships with those clients were basically at our level. Like nobody else spoke to them other than me. So I was looking after 10 or 11 gym operators. James was looking after four or five in, in the west and southwest. Um, so, you know, even between as if we decided just to go off on our own and, and not buy the business, um, would've done all right.
Speaker 1 00:18:10 Um, we've had to start a lot again and we wouldn't have had a lot of the, the things that were available to us, it would've taken a bit longer. Um, but yeah, there was, there was a lot to do, um, just kind of structurally and obviously you're not just dealing with clients but also suppliers, personal trainers, staff, um, where to get a new set of accountants, uh, work with a new set of solicitors, um, and make a lot of changes and, and updates and things like that. And I think in be honest with you, when we look back, I'm, I don't know how we did that much work in that short of a period of time, um, because it was just manic. So it would like easily 68 hours a week every week for the rest of that year. Um, and then bearing in mind we had two additional lockdowns during that period and they were all different in different countries as well.
Speaker 1 00:19:01 So because you've got trainers and gyms over England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, none of them ever lined up to do the same thing at the same time. It was always a week's delay here, week's delay there, or these were shutting a week earlier or there was different rules over here. So that was a massive, massive pain in the backside and quite a large inconvenience, but obviously nothing we could do about it. But when they were closed, um, and gyms weren't, you know, available to PTs, we kind of then revisited the old. Right. How do you keep looking after your clients? How do you maintain communication with our own clients as well, but also we used that time to do the things that we needed to do in the background. So, you know, it's almost the positives of that is we gave ourselves a few extra weeks here and there, um, and we didn't stop working.
Speaker 1 00:19:49 Um, and then obviously the, the last lockdown we had was what, like three months? So I think we opened mid-April 2021 again, I think Jim's in, in England. Um, and then we had a period of being kind of reopened and, and obviously had a bit of continuity. Things were coming a bit more normal, people were coming back to the gyms a little bit. Personal trainings were starting to regain a little bit of confidence in the, in the sector because it was not very well supported at all. I think that's been quite well first and documented by a lot of people. It's kind of like at the bottom of the list for everyone, despite probably being able to offer the most significant impact on people's health. Um, and, and obviously help people. But for whatever reason it's still pretty much at the bottom of the par as far as I can see.
Speaker 1 00:20:37 Um, but yeah, so we, it slowly, slowly came back. Um, and then in 2022 it was, it just kicked off like we didn't think was gonna happen. Um, so we projected a particular growth pattern for 2021 cuz then I think it was about eight months we had to, to kind of predict that. Um, and then 2022 we thought it would be a slow and gradual climb back up. Um, but we managed to kind of fully recover and at the same time we create a complete organizational restructure of, of your PT and, and that 18 months. Um, and develop, uh, an education provider as well. So obviously going through rewarding organization, awarding bodies, et cetera. Um, as well as then looking at new op opportunities, um, tech developments and stuff as well. Building new relationships. Um, I think we went from 11 gym operator clients to 26 in 18 months, um, which obviously expanded the reach and then, um, then moved into kind of supporting, um, a club in QA city who kind of reached out for us to, to help them find and, and develop personal trainers.
Speaker 0 00:21:50 Wow. And, and can you give a a either the exact or a ballpark figure in terms of how many personal trainers you currently manage?
Speaker 1 00:21:59 Um, without looking at my crm, no. Um, but they are, it change, it changes every day as well. Um, so the number of applications we get, you know, you could go anywhere from, I think you can go up to about 25 applications a day at certain periods of the year. Wow. But we have 417 locations just in the UK and they'll range from, you know, 500 members, single site gyms to, you know, four story 12,000 member clubs in central London. So there's quite a big group.
Speaker 0 00:22:34 That's amazing. What I would l I've been very, very outspoken about standards in the industry as you know. Um, and I know it's, it's something that you, some beliefs that you share as well around, you know, improving standards. Mm-hmm <affirmative> looking after personal trainers and coaches. And do you feel that your, your personal training should have to exist or, or should it really be something that's being taken care of by adequate modifications, governing bodies? No, you have to tread carefully, but, um, answer how you can. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:23:12 Mm. Yeah, I do have to be careful cause I sit on a couple of committees for, for stuff as well. Um, but the reason I sit on that is because I, I need to be on the inside to kind of affect more change. I realize you have to play the game to a certain level. I, I don't think you should have to, but unfortunately the minute that's just the way shit is, like you sometimes you just have to kind of give a little to, to get a little to kind of make changes, um, should we exist. I, I think like originally your personal training only existed to improve on other companies were doing the same thing, so kind of managing personal trainers, but they, it was just kind to make it more sustainable for PTs, whereas now those companies don't exist. Um, just because obviously they were just obviously terrible and, and the way they treat people and you know, not just personal trainers but the gyms they were working with was, was not great.
Speaker 1 00:24:07 Um, but I don't think there's ever gonna be a space where we are not needed in some way, shape, or form. And that is largely down to, and you know, the more I've kind of, we've always known this anyway, but obviously probably more so now that we're, you know, we, we hear from like if you think of a gym provider in the uk I've spoken to them in the last 18 months, um, they've kind of reached out and, and said, we're having a problem with recruiting or retaining or like the standard of personal trainers we've got is shit we don't like. Why is that? Can you help us get, you know, better personal trainers? What should we be doing? Um, and they don't, they just dunno what they're doing and it's always at the bottom of the pile. And, and it's a really sad thing to have to say.
Speaker 1 00:24:58 Um, and I think most personal trainers probably feel like, you know, if they're working directly with a gym, that they probably feel like they're the least valued people in that building. And that's generally the feedback that that we get is their, you know, they're the last person that anyone thinks about. And I think the, you know, lockdowns and stuff prove that a lot of the time as well because some gym operators didn't even speak to their PTs for six months. Like nothing. Just an email to say this is what your rent's gonna be when you come back. Like that's just like, those gyms deserve everything they get as, as far as I'm concerned, if their PTs decide to leave, that's your own fault. Um, but they're always gonna be at the bottom of the pile. But for, for us, I guess the advantage of, of the trainers that work with us and they go into these gyms, if we weren't there, they would just become a statistic and they would be gone in, what's the average length to stay for a PT in the UK now seven months I think is, is now, which is just so bad, but it is what it is and we know that, we know why that is the the number that it is.
Speaker 1 00:26:00 But our sole focus is just to help the trainers. Like, we don't worry about anything else that goes on in that gym. You know, we don't look at the class timetable and we don't talk about like how many members they're gonna get that month or anything like that. So we're almost running the personal training divisions and it's our sole focus.
Speaker 1 00:26:24 And I think that, I don't think there's ever gonna be a time where a gym is gonna be able to do the goodest job. Have we done? Or even 20% in my opinion, because I've been working with these people for a number of years and I've spoken to other gym operators and you know, you would think you, you, there's probably, um, some things that people look at a particular gym chain or whatever it is and go, they've got a really good personal training model. They're all monumental failures and the vast majority of 'em actually lose money, which is wild. But they, they don't even want to implement 10% of what they should be doing to make it better. Their, their start point is, how can we make more money from personal training? We go, well, you need to get them more clients, make them more capable, improve their communication skills, help them with marketing, but they don't go down to that level and go, right, well let's start from the bottom and work our way up. And until that changes and it's, it's not going to, there will always be a requirement for people like us and, and, and other, and other companies as well.
Speaker 0 00:27:29 Yeah. Like I totally get it. Like I feel the same about O F B. Um, I felt like it kind of existed because it wasn't being done for personal trainers at the place where they'd probably expect it. So mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the, the Active IQ or sims spa approved education providers were just never going to go to that level of depth in, in running the business and, and maybe they can't logistically or, or an operation perspective. Um, so your, your personal training is, has gone through a whirlwind three years now, two and a half years. Um, it sounds like things are going pretty well. You've got 400 personal trainings in 417 locations. Where do you go from here? What's the, what's, what do the next couple of years look like or what's the big hairy ass goal?
Speaker 1 00:28:23 I mean, there's, there's a few things. I mean, you know, the, the kind of next big milestone is, is a thousand clubs. Um, because, uh, you know, I mean the, the reason for for looking at locations and clubs rather than a number of personal trainers is if you don't have the clock on locations, you can't help the PTs in that area. So, you know, we get about 26% of our applications, we either don't have a, a, a gym within like a commutable distance or they're not qualified or whatever it is. Um, and our team come off the phone with them and they're like, look, we've got a gym over here. And they're like, oh, it's too far. And then we know their options are limited and we know they're gonna become a statistic and we take that type of person. Cause we're like, we couldn't help that person.
Speaker 1 00:29:08 We, we couldn't do something for them and they're not gonna be able to get even 50% of what we do anywhere else without paying four or five different people to help them in those things. So to kind of expand what we're doing and, and kind of go into the four corners of, of the uk, even the really kind of small places, because there's gonna be personal trainers there that want to build a career are never really gonna have the opportunity. So the more gyms we have, the more opportunities we can kind of create as well. Um, and he then kind of touched on the education point for PTs, and you're not wrong, and, and obviously you, you would know, I think we, we probably discussed this previously as well, that the amount of training providers that have collapsed over the last year, year and a half, and some of the, they're not insignificant ones that have closed their doors.
Speaker 1 00:29:55 So premier training, um, the training room, like you're, you're talking about 54% of the market share just with those two in terms of like people qualifying. Um, but you know, the industry's been plagued by training providers who have kind of cut costs at the expense of quality education. So, you know, we always talk about the good old days. So when I did a personal training course, it was 12 weeks in a classroom and we did that and you know, people actually learned and you sat around other people and you, you weren't just turning up online and clicking a button and recording yourself bicep curls and bake bean tins for three minutes and then getting signed off. That's a true anecdote. But you know, they've, they then hire poorly educated tutors. They cut the face-to-face contact time, everything is generic and superficial. So like you said, trainers go into gyms ill prepared.
Speaker 1 00:30:50 You know, I even remember going back into like my personal, you know, PT days at Fitness first. Um, a female trainer started two weeks after me asked if she can shadow me for the day. I was like, no problem at all. I probably should have done that, to be honest with you. That's a great idea. Then she asked me what a press up was. Oh. And I was just like, right, okay. And this is in like 2008. Um, and we ended up a couple of years ago, we, when we kind of took over, we blacklisted training providers from like, if we got one of their graduates and they didn't, they weren't working in the industry for 12 months after they graduated with that particular company, didn't touch 'em with a barge pole. And we thought that would be to the betterment of obviously what we were doing.
Speaker 1 00:31:33 And, and obviously that made sense, but at the same time we've then thought like a few months later, are we depriving that person of, of good quality education by not allowing them to kind of potentially join our business. Obviously we have a 10 stage interview and screening process that is 18 touch points and various interviews and, and things like that. But we do and, and bits and pieces they have to tick. Um, but what they then kind of led us to is like, right, the industry's flooded with poorly educated personal trainers and I speak to gyms all the time and I speak to people on the committees and stuff like they talk to, and that's all they complain about is the standard of trainers that are coming through. And I'm like, okay, well what have you done about it? Like, can you do your own, don't have the resource, don't have the time, don't actually know what they're doing.
Speaker 1 00:32:19 Um, and on the flip side of that as well, students have now been settling for cheap and superficial education because they want that, uh, I guess we're, we're in that time of we want things now and like, yeah, great, go and go and do a course, but you're not gonna be very good. You're not gonna have a career and you're gonna be back doing what you were doing before and you're gonna blame everybody else, but you have a choice. And the choice is normally based on finance. So do you do a 1700 pound course that is designed to prepare you for the industry and give you a long lasting career or would you spend 600 quid on doing one that you can just sit in your underpants in your living room doing 20 hours and you're done and then hopefully someone will give you a job.
Speaker 0 00:33:10 Yeah, I definitely see And
Speaker 1 00:33:12 Choices have consequences.
Speaker 0 00:33:14 Yeah, I, I think I definitely see more people nowadays just going for the cheapest option because they see the qualification as just a, a box ticking exercise. I just need to set this box then I'm my personal trainer and I can go and build this amazing career. Um, and it doesn't usually work out, which is a surprise shock.
Speaker 1 00:33:35 I know. And I know, I know we've kind of talked about it as well and you know, uh, like I said, I've obviously explained to you what we're looking to do with our curriculum. Obviously you, you have to tick the awarding body organization in terms of things that you have to teach, but you can also do within that whatever you want. So as long as you're doing what they want you to do, everything else that you can put in between, and obviously we've talked about, you know, um, how strides can be implemented into the curriculum of what we are doing at your academy. I've spoken to, um, a couple of different tech companies in terms of implementing what they're doing to make them more job ready when they finish because their tech is pretty much at like 95% of our gym clients gyms anyway. So I'm like, well how good does it look for us and how much better it is for, for them and also for the, for the fitness and structural pt, if they can walk in on day one and they know exactly how to use everything and they know where everything does and they know all the features and benefits of what they're doing and they can have a bigger impact faster at that facility and not have to be trained on some really rudimentary things that actually the gym is not gonna do the best they can to train that person.
Speaker 1 00:34:52 Because to them it's like, I've gotta train 'em how to use this stuff. I'm not really interested in education, but I just need them to be able to tick this box. Whereas we wanna make people completely competent in what they're doing. And then also get them to understand that like the education doesn't stop once you finished your course. Like it continues on for that forever. And there is like, and I've said this before, I'm like the boring guy who knows data and numbers and things like that when it comes to like industry statistics when it comes to education and um, and obviously careers and recruitment and all that kind of stuff, but personal trainers who are higher educated beyond the basic level three, and I'm not talking about they have to have master degrees or anything like that, but the ones who are focused around nutrition programming and business within three years of running three times the amount of somebody that has just done their level three and done nothing else, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 0 00:35:46 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:35:46 That is, that is a lot of cash. And the
Speaker 0 00:35:51 Go ahead.
Speaker 1 00:35:53 Yeah, for something that I think the average spend is 1,430 pounds a year. So you always think if someone said, if you gave me 1400 credit and I over the next three years you gave me that every year, but you would triple your income from year one to year three. And if you don't do it, you're gonna stay where you are now. You hand it over,
Speaker 0 00:36:16 No brainer.
Speaker 1 00:36:18 But people don't do it. And I don't, I don't know everyone's motivational lack of motivation for not wanting to do it. But I think also people then maybe understood those numbers and those metrics and maybe it was put in front of them, they'd be like, well actually that makes sense because I'm getting better and I'm offering a better service and maybe I can charge more and I can attract more people and get more referrals and you know, it kind of works a lot better. But I, I don't know any successful PT that's at the top of their game that just stopped learning after that initial six or eight weeks, whatever they were doing.
Speaker 0 00:36:56 Why do you think that the business And so sales, marketing, communication isn't the kind of prioritized from a, you know, qualification course writing perspective because as, as you've said, I think it's in everyone's best interest for personal trainings to stick around. So if if it's the case that if they knew how to market and sell, why, why isn't that being prioritized in in the education?
Speaker 1 00:37:26 Bluntly, honest laziness. And, and I'll, and I can talk from that, from experience and, and being in those situations where we've spoken to training providers big and small and said, look like the trainings that are coming out are not, they're not ready. Like if they could just do this, this, this, we've got it all already. We do it for them, but let us give it to you or we'll work with you to develop this. Um, for nothing. We even said, look, you can white label it if you want. Just make sure we're credited and, and obviously because it's our intellectual property, it's our resource. Um, but you can put your branding on it. It's, oh no, cuz then they have to do the, and it's an extra day and that's gonna cost us like an extra 14 pounds of learner to to um, to put into the curriculum and then we'd have to like, even that's with me doing it all for them.
Speaker 1 00:38:15 They didn't want to do it. Um, so that's when we came up with the, you know, sometimes you hit like, I call it the fuck it button. Yeah. Like I was like, fuck it, we're just gonna do it ourselves. Like if you don't want to be a partner then and, and don't wanna do a better job, then I'm gonna try and do a better job than you are now, now and I'm gonna become a competitor. Which is why we ended up opening your academy in the first instance because we were like, well, we'll we'll just do a better job. And it took a long time to find the right person to lead the academy cuz you have to find people that are aligned with your values, your vision, um, you know, what you want the business to do. They have to have the right work ethic, the right skillset, experience, et cetera.
Speaker 1 00:38:57 Um, and we've absolutely got the right person to do that, but it's something that he always wanted to do but didn't have the resource or the backing. So it was like two and two makes four in this scenario. Um, and it's gonna be a work in progress for us. Um, but the focus is just around creating really good gym instructors, personal trainers who are sociable, who are educated, that know how to program, they know about nutrition, they know about business. Um, and then beyond that it's then developing those skills further, whether that's, um, corrective exercise or performance enhancement exercise or nutrition or whatever it is. Just focusing on those three pillars. Like you've only gotta be good at three things as a personal trainer, nutrition training and programming and business and communication skills. Like, just focus on those three things. Like everything else is just guff, just, it's just guff in the end, the rest of it. Um, so, but yeah, anyway, I always kind of dive off cuz things just piss me off to a certain degree so
Speaker 0 00:40:05 I'm right there with you mate. So a lot of the people that are, that will be listening to this are building businesses of, of their own a little bit different to your PT for the most part. But what a lot of them are doing is beginning to consider hiring other personal trainers, other online coaches for their own businesses. It's something that's happening more and more now, especially amongst online coaches. So it'd be great to get some insights and tips of advice from you around that. So I suppose the first question is, what are the biggest challenges that you face when hiring uh, or accepting applications and managing a large group of personal trainers?
Speaker 1 00:40:50 So I guess the, the, the challenge whenever I, I mean you, we kind of always have to start off by thinking, I dunno whether most trainers actually think about this when they are trying to grow their teams, is why do they want to do it in the first place? Like what do they want to get from it? What's its, what's its purpose? Um, like for me personal training is like a, it's like a lifestyle career, isn't it? It's, it's not really a business or a career that you're gonna have an eight or nine figure exit in 10 years time. I think, I don't think most personal trainings are thinking about what they're gonna be doing in 10 years, but I think they should because it will help them plan things a little bit better. Um, I think understanding what you want from somebody, uh, I think you need a set of values and, and a vision that, that people can buy into.
Speaker 1 00:41:36 Um, and when people are looking to come and work with you, the first thing they're thinking is what's in it for me? So what are you actually offering these coaches that you want to join your team if you are trying to expand? And once you do find the right people and, and obviously you bring them in, choose wisely. Like don't rush. So, you know, I kind of talk about our kind of academy director, Kev Baker, who um, absolutely brilliant. I spoke to 60 companies and 300 people before landing on him in four months, um, companies because one of the options was an acquisition, um, realized quickly that most of those companies were in the toilet. Um, and it would take so much work to pull them out, you might as well start from scratch. Um, and you know, it it it took a lot. I'm not saying that's what they have to do.
Speaker 1 00:42:30 I'm, I'm probably a little, I dunno where it's a little bit more particular and, and maybe we've kind of learned some lessons over the years, um, but even when we're looking for personal training managers, support managers, like it's more of a head hunting mission. Um, because you have a network, like we are obviously on a network of PTs and, and some are very, very talented and you know, are probably already helping personal trainers anyway. Um, so it's like, well can we develop these people and, and obviously, you know, help ourselves choose, but a lot of the time you might have friends and uh, and colleagues that are really good coaches. Um, I think I've, I kind of listened to, um, when you're talking to Emma, um, and I think also maybe Mike and Dan as well, obviously I know we kind of know them anyway, um, but they've got people that are supporting them with their business like they already knew they didn't go out and try and recruit people that they've never heard of or put a job a out or anything like that.
Speaker 1 00:43:22 And I genuinely think if you're a personal trainer trying to grow your coaching team, that's probably the best thing to do. Um, and obviously make sure they share your standards as well, um, or can even help you improve them, that's always a good thing. Galing for the sake of scaling is completely pointless and you hear that all the time in terms of, oh, exchange, you know, get more time and have a team of, you know, people doing your work for you. And so like why do you want to do that in the first place, right? If you are, if you are happi earning 35, 40 grand a year, working 25 hours a week and you can either work remotely or you're just working out of one gym so you can spend loads of time with your kids and you family and stuff like that, why do you wanna earn a hundred grand a year and work three times the amount or have someone working in your team that might ruin it for you?
Speaker 1 00:44:13 Um, and just be willing when you are building a team, understand that you will make mistakes and you probably will fuck it up more than once. Um, you'll have bad hires, um, and you'll have people that will let you down. But I think it's always important to reflect as if that does happen and hopefully touch what, it doesn't happen to everybody, but I think it's a good kind of learning thing, but understand why that happened and is there something about that individual that didn't match your vision and values or your standards and you can kind of move forward next time and say, this is what I don't want from a person as well as what you do want. Um, and you'll get there eventually. Also, don't micromanage. Everyone will thank you for it and you'll thank yourself for it as well.
Speaker 0 00:45:02 Can I ask where have you learned all this? Cause obviously you've, you've started on the same path as a lot of our listeners. Are you as a personal trainer and obviously you've developed into, you know, a, a fairly effective or very competent MD owner of a company that has a lot of different stakeholders and a lot of people involved in it. So how have you learned all that you've learned in terms of scaling, managing and, and everything that comes with it?
Speaker 1 00:45:28 Um, suffering I would say is the first one. Um, because like inevitably, you know, you, you kind of make mistakes and I think some people I've, uh, like I, I'm quite bad. So I, I have, um, what's kind of often referred to as high-functioning anxiety. So I catastrophize, I suffer from perfectionism and things like that. I, I blame myself for anything that goes wrong, but what I then try and do is, is kind of reflect on, on why that may have happened. Was it, I will always blame myself, but then eventually I might come around to go, well that was actually out of my control. Um, I'm also very fortunate that I have a really good business partner, um, in James and, and obviously co-owner of your PT and the, the two kind of, let's say angel investors, I think that's how kind of more how they act than anything like that are 10, 15 years further down the line of building business in, in businesses in the industry than I am.
Speaker 1 00:46:31 So I've managed to use that time that they've had to kind of learn from, from their mistakes and just basically not make them, but also it's quite nice to have a bit of a sounding board to go, well I've looked at this and this is what I want to do and this is what we should be doing. Is there any reason that this doesn't exist now? Is there anything that we are missing? It's like having a a, a new pair of eyes on things as such, but most of it is through suffering and having to make kind of hard decisions and you know, we've made hires that literally three weeks later I'm like, no, good. Three months later they did all right but no good. Um, or this person actually can't do everything that we want them to, but they're really good at this. Um, I also spend a lot of time looking at other sectors.
Speaker 1 00:47:24 So my, when I'm trying to learn about something or, or try and become better at something, I don't just go, what does the fitness industry do? Or what does this person in this industry do? Because it's not the be all and end all. Like if you wanna learn about tech for the fitness industry, you don't look what's in it already. You go and look at everything else. So I look at hospitality, I look at tech, I look at startups, and even when I'm looking at how I manage and and treat staff, I'm looking at Google, maybe not Apple, um, but you know, maybe kind of incubators and things like that as well of go, right, what can I take from there? What is a good work in practice that might fit my business? And let's let's give it a go and, and see how it works and create that structure. So we have a lot of processes and structures, but we also allow people to express themselves a little bit as well. So everyone gets to learn from everybody, which I think is a massive bonus.
Speaker 0 00:48:23 Yeah, I love that. One thing I, I'd just like to maybe get some advice on as well or hear your thoughts on is letting people go, obviously you mentioned making bad hires, having to let people go, and I know it's a something all of us dread, um, having to fire someone. So have you got any advice for how best to approach letting a bad fit? Go
Speaker 1 00:48:48 Do it fast. That's it. Yeah, <laugh>, so <laugh>, there's, there's, there's something that I I God, I I must have heard it a co maybe a couple of years ago or, or maybe actually when we were look at, you know, when I, I think in the beginning we had to make a really tough decision with a business partner, like within two weeks of, of taking over and it was really, really tough and I don't think anything will be as tough as that again, to be honest. Um, but I heard a phrase higher, fast and fire faster. Yeah. Because if you let people linger around, it's gonna fuck things up. So the longer you have somebody doing a bad job, the worse it's gonna look for you. Um, and it even includes like gyms with, with GMs there's like statistics to say that a bad GM is more costly than not having one at all and the difference is about 30%.
Speaker 1 00:49:37 So, you know, it's kind of finding the right people take your time, but when you do find the right person, be quick. But also if you've got somebody in there that doesn't fit, I think honesty is the best policy. Um, don't be emotionally blackmailed. Um, because ultimately by maybe taking a chance or giving that person an extra three months might mean that you are taking the food off the table for three or four other people in your business because it has such a bad effect, um, or may even damage your reputation, which damages your entire business and the get go anyway and then you're all screwed. So it is about looking at the bigger picture and yes, you probably will feel bad, um, but you have to look at the positives and the things that you can control over. I've upset somebody because running a business you're gonna piss people off all the time and it's just one of those things.
Speaker 0 00:50:36 Yeah, I completely agree. Okay, Aaron, it's been a pleasure to have you. I've got some finishing questions if you're up for it.
Speaker 1 00:50:44 Well, let's go for it.
Speaker 0 00:50:46 So what do the next few years look like for you as a business owner and the business itself?
Speaker 1 00:50:53 Um, busy, um, but in a, in a good way. So obviously the last two years have been more about sustainability and uh, and obviously just maintaining growth and just building that kind of structure. And now we're at the point where we can do, well, I have a list of like essentials that we need and I have a list that's labeled Fun Ship. So the fun ship for personal trainers and, and obviously things that we're looking at, um, is, you know, things that maybe I wanted as a personal trainer that I never had. So the only thing we don't do at the minute for personal trainers is sell personal training for them. We do everything else. That's the last thing they've gotta do is, is generate leads, which obviously we do a lot online anyway, um, and teach them how to do it in the club and, and in social groups, et cetera.
Speaker 1 00:51:43 But focusing more on how we can get more people to personal trainers, more people into those gyms as well. So it becomes even more sustainable. Um, growing the number of clubs obviously. Um, and then obviously expanding our education offerings. So we're looking at bringing the best of like global education, um, whether it's accredited or not to military, I don't really give a stuff and I think a lot of education that exists that is the best is not accredited by award awarding bodies. So, and I don't think that should be, you know, a deciding factor of whether you do it or not. If it's gonna provide a benefit to people that you're working with and the people you help, then you should be doing it. Um, and perhaps them expanding into vertical and adjacent markets that we're already in as well. Cause we get asked to do a lot of things and it's, I'm one of those people, I have a hundred ideas a year and it's annoying for my business partners cause I'm always thinking about new things and things that come up and like to solve problems. Half a dozen of 'em will probably dial down and then two of them will be really good and one of them will actually do. And yeah, it's, it's always nice to have those options. So there'll be a few things that we do naturally, but there might be some more fun opportunities to come up later in the year as well.
Speaker 0 00:52:59 Perfect. What's something that you hate about the interest, uh, about the industry?
Speaker 1 00:53:07 I don't hate anything. Cause I think it's quite a strong word and hate, I think invokes anger and, you know, um, resentment, which I don't think are good rises and motivators for a lot of people, but things that really me off, um, are people or companies who come in thinking it's a quick, rich scheme and, and prey on the vulnerable and desperate, which is, that could be personal trainers or people that want to lose weight quickly go, right, let's, let's do this by this and, and basically just not deliver. Um, or that could be, you know, business mentors or whatever it is. Like that's it. It's just like everyone knows, and I think we can probably all agree and I think personal trainers might not want to be honest with themselves sometimes, but they are like literally frothing at the mouth for success. Like they want to, you know, have the, the nice apartments in, uh, Dubai Marina and they want, but they want it like tomorrow.
Speaker 1 00:54:13 Yeah. Then they don't realize half the time that some of us have been doing it 15, 20 years. Um, and we've made sacrifices and suffer and like, I'm doing this on a 12 year old laptop and I drive a 10 year old car. I don't have any, like, there's just these things that don't really matter that much. Um, and you don't actually need, it is not reflection of your success. Like, there's other things that make people happy. Um, but there are that group and, and I think, you know, if they were, if those people were honest to a personal trainer and said, right, 95% of you are never gonna achieve what those 5% are achieving, I think statistically it's 4.6. But there we go. I'm just, I told you I was boring. But Right. 95% of PTs will never get to that DPA level, you know, the six figure fit pros that we think there's loads of them, there's not, there's, there's a handful and most of them have got there without being ethical that we say. I think that's probably about the quietest thing we can say. Um, if they were true and honest about the chances of success and what it takes, most people would never sign up to those programs and I think they know that, but they definitely know that. Um, and that's one thing that I really, really don't like,
Speaker 0 00:55:35 Really, really don't like it. And it pisses you off, but you don't hate it.
Speaker 1 00:55:39 No, because it makes people angry.
Speaker 0 00:55:42 <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:55:43 What's the can't be fueled by anger or hate.
Speaker 0 00:55:46 True. True. Uh, what's the biggest mistake you see people looking, see people make that are looking to build a business in the industry?
Speaker 1 00:55:57 They don't think about what they want. They don't know what they want. Um, they don't even know what their desired outcome is. They're just like, oh, I wanna earn a load of money or I wanna have 50 clients. Why? What, what's that gonna give you? What are you gonna do for those people? There's it, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense. And, and I was like it when I started as well. I was like, I wanna get 25 clients. I don't think why think, why don't want do that? I was just like, well, that's what everyone else does, right? Um, and they're not really thinking about themselves. They're kind of focusing on what others are doing. Um, and I think also not understanding the true meaning of delayed gratification and sacrifice. So, you know, one of the things I always kind of think about is, and it listen maybe a slight annoyance, but you probably heard it a lot, work life balance that, oh, that's what I want from a career work life balance.
Speaker 1 00:56:53 It's, it's not a thing, it's a choice. Like if you want to build a successful personal training business and someone says like, you're gonna be working 12, 16 hours a day, well, I don't wanna do that. Okay, well you've made a choice and that choice comes with a consequence of it's gonna take you a lot longer to build your personal training business and then people will give up because it's not happened quick enough. Um, and they need to understand that choices have consequences and it's okay. It doesn't matter if you don't want to build a business in six months or 12 months and you're happy for it to take you two years, but just realize if you are making those decisions that like you have to plan for it and understand that, you know, and on the flip side, there's consequences of spending 12, 16 hours a day building a business. If you've got a family and friends and things like that, you're gonna, you're sacrificing those things, but that's a consequence of pursuing something that you wanna be successful with. So it's really just thinking about why you want to do it, what the purpose is and what you are prepared to do to get there. Um, I think you could probably say the same for weight loss, muscle building, right? What are you prepared to sacrifice and what are you willing to do to get to where you want to be?
Speaker 0 00:58:02 Yeah, a hundred percent. I agree. Let's finish on a positive note. What's something that you love about the industry?
Speaker 1 00:58:13 So I think the, I really, really, you know, the, the thing that kind of makes you smile a little bit and, and probably makes people happy and is that is the reason why people join the industry in the first place. Like, they want to help people. Like I'd love to help people lose weight or like I was able to build myself. I'd love to be able to pass that on to, to somebody else or whatever it is. Um, and I think that's a good foundation to build anything like you're getting into something for the right reason. And I'd like to think the vast majority of people are getting into the industry for the right reason. You know, it's, it's a bit like being a nurse. You don't do it cuz you think you're gonna get paid 90 grand a year. You do it because you care and you want to help and you're gonna, you think you're gonna make a difference.
Speaker 1 00:58:59 Um, and people getting into the fitness industry can help other people in other ways and, and make a difference. Um, I think also the, the potential that the industry has is, is exciting. Um, not just from, you know, new innovations and tech and stuff like that. Like the, you know, the, the PT industry shrunk two years ago, like quite dramatically. Um, I think the value of the industry, I think the market shrunk by 185 million, something like that. So the number of people and the number of um, the amount of money that the PT industry generated in 2021 went back in 11 years. So for me, I'm like, if I wanted to be a personal trainer, I started in 2021 because it can't, it's only gonna go up and you're gonna be in the right position. But I think this year is, is actually the, the year that it's going to, according to data insights, et cetera, and people changing careers or that kind of thing where the personal training industry is gonna have the most people it's ever had and is gonna have the biggest market penetration it's ever had.
Speaker 1 01:00:08 So 2023 for personal training I think is probably the most exciting time to get started. And if you didn't start in 2021 or 2022, this is the next best time to do it. And in 12 months time it's gonna be a lot harder to get in and a lot harder to be successful because of how quickly it's gonna grow this year. Um, but I don't even think we've scratched the surface when it comes to the industry's potential. But I think what you need is the right people with the right values, the right motives, um, because if those people are driving it forward, then you can have a much wider impact on a much wider group of people. It sounds a bit crus Sadie, that doesn't it.
Speaker 0 01:00:51 You're preaching to the fire <laugh>. That, that's literally our mission on our, on our team dashboard at Stratus. Like our goal, and this was the same at ofp, was to champion and, and empower personal trainers, move the industry forward because then the impact and the reach and you know, how many consumers can be helped is just the impact is, is massive. Um, yeah, absolutely. Reach into the choir. Cool. Aaron, it's been a pleasure mate. If people want to find you, uh, learn more about you or, or get in contact with you, where's the best place for 'em to go?
Speaker 1 01:01:27 Um, I mean I wouldn't be too fussed about me to be honest with you. Um, purely because my kind of Instagram and stuff is basically food and my dog. Um, I mean if you enter those things, great. I mean I do go
Speaker 0 01:01:40 Into both of those things, right?
Speaker 1 01:01:41 <laugh>, um, but <laugh>, yeah. And um, yeah, other than that it's, it's not that exciting. Um, but um, obviously your personal training are on all of the platforms. I dunno what that means, but that's what my marketing team tell me. Um, and they're, they're there as well. Um, I think we're gonna even go onto TikTok soon. I don't, I dunno why. Wow. Um, but there we are. Um, but yeah obviously the, your personal training website, which is www your personal training UK dot code uk, um, from there you can click on like, you know, your academy links and stuff as well. Um, we're on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, um, so you can just type in your PT or your personal training and you should be able to find us. And if you wanna see pictures of what I eat and my dog, um, just search uh, Erin Mac on Instagram or Facebook or whatever and yeah, be bored to death.
Speaker 0 01:02:32 <laugh> all really happy with food and dogs.
Speaker 1 01:02:36 A hundred percent. It's a niche market, but there we are
Speaker 0 01:02:38 <laugh>. Um, cool, we'll we'll link to a bunch of those places so that the people can find you. Um, thanks very much for your time mate. I really appreciate it. Take easy.
Speaker 1 01:02:48 No worries. Thanks for having me mate. It's good to chat.
