Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Everybody SK here and today I am joined by Daniel Meek from Biceps and Banter. Dan, thanks for joining me.
Speaker 1 00:00:08 Yeah, half of bicep, the other half on me today. I think
Speaker 0 00:00:11 I did. Yeah, I heard what you have to say about you mate, and um, oh, I'd be prepared to, to bite back today and get some
Speaker 1 00:00:21 Yeah, well I've seen him play golf so it's fine. <laugh>, I've got video as well, video evidence of it, so I just post that.
Speaker 0 00:00:27 Yeah. So we will be going through Dan's story, career and the business, um, that he's running today. Really successful business bicep and banter in detail bought. In the meantime, Danny, if you just wanna give people a quick overview of, of who you are and what Biceps and banter is.
Speaker 1 00:00:47 Uh oh mine, that's a questional. Uh, just, I'm just an ordinary guy, you know, it's, that whole thing isn't, I'm just an ordinary guy. Um, yeah, so I'm just, uh, I say just a coach, but I've been coaching people, uh, forever basically since I was an adult. I think I got into coaching of some of, some description, which I'm sure we'll get into. Um, yeah, so, so I kind of started off with that and it's kind of evolved as, as time has gone on, obviously just with expertise in how they've changed, um, as to who I coached. Um, but yeah, I've always, always coached people. Um, which, yeah, it's funny, I literally from, I'm just think even, even when I was 14, 15 I was coaching, um, cuz it at that level at school, like you had GSE that were done, you know, you had coaching elements within that.
Speaker 1 00:01:32 Um, so going into primary school coaching, which is, um, I've always, always done it. And then Vice Banner is now a, a business and a company, which again sounds crazy to say out loud. Um, that provides I suppose fat loss coaching and now also coaching other coaches, um, on how to, I suppose, build a, build a business that they may wish to, to build maybe look similar to what we've done. Um, and that's kind of where we're at now. Um, I suppose we'll talk about how that longer, the last sort of, um, yeah, four or five years I guess, um, what it's today,
Speaker 0 00:02:02 A hundred percent. So am I right in thinking that you got your start in the industry in professional sport or was that step one?
Speaker 1 00:02:09 Yeah, step one, yeah, so I, um, I think it was about the age of 16. Um, so just as I was going into a levels, I remember that I knew I wanted to do this or go into professional sport as a career cause I picked my A levels based on what I thought people at university would, would, would want. So I did biology, PE, and psychology. And uh, then it as an, as level as I, um, and I sort of went down that route of I could, I wasn't good enough to play sport professionally. I realized that in 1516 I wasn't good enough. So I was like, right, well how can I be involved in sport? Um, and, and still still kind of be in that arena. And at the time, um, sport science wasn't really, it was just emerging. It was like you could go to university and study it.
Speaker 1 00:02:51 Um, and it was at the time where some football teams were starting to talk about it. So those are those people who are old enough to know some other life at Bolton and all those sorts of things. Like, and Alex <inaudible> was at United at the time and they were the only two in the premier that kind of talked about it. And it was still very much a young thing. Um, and it was emerging things. There was quite a few jobs available within that, that arena. And then it became quite prominent. So it was what I wanted to do. I thought, right, I'll be a sports scientist, I'll go into sports science. At the time I didn't really know much about personal training, fitness or anything like that. It was just for me it was, I was interested in sport and I was half decent of school.
Speaker 1 00:03:22 So I was like, right, well if I do science stuff then I can apply it to some sport. Um, so I knew quite quickly, um, when I was 16, so a lot of choices I made from the age of 16 to 18, uh, and, and further into 21 when I went to uni. And that five year period, all the choices I made were sort of gearing me towards going into professional sports. So, um, but uni I, you know, I, I gave up a lot of my free time to go and work for free at football clubs. So I didn't turn at football clubs at the time. They were offering out these free sort of placements. So I'd just go and spend every summer, every summer and every Easter I would spend up football club, um, getting some, some work experience for free. So I luckily, I, I mean I supported red in football club, which is, uh, nothing to shout about.
Speaker 1 00:04:02 Um, but I just managed to, to, I I just, I did, I did it the old fashioned way. I just sent letters. I just sent letters to the people there and said, can I, can I come and, and work, you know, with you guys and I'll do anything. Just wanted to see what it's like in the sports science department. And at that point, at that time it was got a, got an email back and you got a song. Yeah. Okay, cool. Come in. Like why wouldn't you, I suppose someone feel free to do dog body work. And um, yeah, I got my in and, and I went there for, for one summer and then they kept asking back every time I was off uni they were like, oh, do you wanna come back and do some more like me around and stuff like that. And that's how I, um, I got my break and all the, I suppose kids are on my degree and on my placement in sports science t really shortly wanted to do, I already knew.
Speaker 1 00:04:40 And, and that's where it came to like the last year at at university. And they did like the whole like, oh, so what you can do for your placement, you need to those six week placement. And I went along on that. I've already done 24 weeks of work at a football club and people couldn't believe it. And I was like, and then I went from uni, did a masters and then got into national football straight away. And I think people were a bit like, oh, how did you do it? And I was like, well I didn't go on holiday and I didn't do all that shit and I worked my nuts off for free while I living with my nan. So I was like, that's how I did it. Um, and I think it's still being good stead up at this point as well. Um, yeah, sort of a bit, a bit of graph I aspect.
Speaker 0 00:05:13 Yeah, I think a lot of people like myself included when I was in a-level like sport science gonna work in professional sport. Um, but I think a lot of people, and and you could probably, um, correct me on this or you prob probably have more, uh, a better insight. A lot of people go into it thinking it's one thing and then quickly realize that it's not as exciting as they think it's, there are fewer jobs, obviously you got into a time where there were more jobs, it's not very well paid. Um, and they don't actually have much say in what can be done. So how did you, how did you find work in professional sport?
Speaker 1 00:05:48 Um, it was eyeopening for sure. Um, I think for me it started off with, I knew that I was given to wash protein shakers and prepare water bottles and, and stuff. I kind of knew that was gonna be the case and again, at an intern level. Um, and I suppose what I didn't quite realize was how long it would take for me to be in a position when board listen. Um, and I think it's one of those where I was never afraid of hard work. So again, I knew it would be a case of of of that and, and, but yeah, in terms of like getting people to, to take me seriously, I reali I think I realized quite quickly that, and I saw other people get absolutely eaten alive cuz they weren't prepared to almost, um, stand up for themselves a little bit, but also have a bit of banter and have a personality.
Speaker 1 00:06:29 And I think luckily for me, um, having done the work for free in, in football, when I got to the point where I was actually in there on a, in a paid position, I quickly realized that to get people's respect, you have to almost join in and um, have fun with it, have a bit of banter and, and be able to take it as well as give it a little bit. And it was very much based on your personality and I quickly realized that you could know everything in the world, you can have all the degrees and all this sort of stuff, but if you did they didn't like it as a person, you were not gonna get anywhere. And that, that's kind of, that was kind of it pretty much for me is I realized, right. Get your head down cleanly shakers, make jokes about the fact all you do is clean shake and make the fact about jokes, about the fact no one listens to you and paid attention.
Speaker 1 00:07:04 But then when you have got something to say, stand up and say, well no, look, this actually needs to be talked about and this needs to be discussed and whatever, because they, they then took it seriously. Whereas if you were someone that was always very much down the line, this is what, this is what this says, this is what the training says, and, and you were almost a bit too bookworm. Like they would just destroy you, um, in, in football. So, um, that, that's kind of what I realized. And, and I think that as I got through it, as I got through into, into my sort of first paid role, like you said, I got no problem talking about how much, you know, I got paid, I was a, the first team sport scientist, so a premier league football club. Um, we got, well I was in the championship at the time, we got promoted that year.
Speaker 1 00:07:41 Um, I was on 22,000 pound a year. Um, I think they knew that they could pay me so, so little because I was, um, it was my first paid job in in, in the industry. I was still quite surprised at how low it was. But I was like, all right, cool, again, get your head down, you'll be fine in, in a few years time you'll be at the top level with everyone else. Um, and then when you realized how much work you had to do for it, I remember in my first year, I remember sitting down over the summer, um, bear in mind you have to work Christmas day, boxing day, um, you know, at any point in the manager if, if a player is had a bad game, I'm gonna never forget players get beat fallen on Saturday, you've arranged to go drive home and see Mrs on Sunday, drive back Monday for work and the team who's fall Ill, he's like, you're all training on Sunday morning, you, you're in training Sunday morning, like a drop hat on a Saturday at 6:00 PM um, again, Christmas day, all this sort of stuff and obviously have a longer break over the summer.
Speaker 1 00:08:29 But then it came to that summer and they said, okay cool, so here's the rotor for who's in and who's off over the summer. I was like, what? I was injured players and obviously sports actually to kinda help them. So I think I had like two weeks off over the summer, no holiday drink, not the holiday during season. And I just remember I had to do all the reserve team games. We just have to travel the way to like, you know, Bradford Sunland like from hall, which is not not easy on a Wednesday night. Um, when he got trainers the next day Thursday and I remember working on an hourly pain, it was like four pound 12:00 PM hour, um, and I'm like, ah, I really want wanna be doing this. And then went back to the first season in the Premier Eagle was um, and I remember going back in there, think, okay cool on got year on my belt, hopefully the Elizabeth more to me now.
Speaker 1 00:09:13 I went away in pre-season tour Portugal, whatever. Um, and I'll never forget, like seeing at the time, I think they hired someone else, they hired another like head of S N C who came in, he was like a 40 year old guy, so knowledgeable and knew everything but at love for university but at Man's Academy for him this was like a step up to the first team. And within a week, within a week the management and the manager's like fitness coach mate who was just no one basically just just the guy with a whistle who started yeah, run more. Um, decided within a week that he didn't really like him, didn't really get up with him, personality even wasn't matched. I was just sat there and I could see it all unfold in front of me. And I could see like the management team, the manager, his little mate who was in charge of everyone in the sports science department, even though he didn't know anything cause he was under reporting into, saw this head of s c come in, I was the 13 sport scientist.
Speaker 1 00:10:06 This guy was kind of head of me anyway, been head of s and c I could just see a mile away. I just sat there looking around going, what I can't do this. He was 40, moved away from his wife and two kids. Left Manchester Academy where he'd been there for eight years, probably on a decent salary at that point, lived in near Manchester, was driving backwards and forth from a hall staying overnight in a place hall. He was 40 yard. And I could just see he got this job within a week. No one respected him. I was like, I can't do this. I was like, I can't be 40 and do this. And it was at that moment I just, I'll never forget it, I was sat in the sport science office, I was eating breakfast, doing some data analysis and I remember it because it all happened.
Speaker 1 00:10:46 And then the very, that very week we had a meeting in, in the office with the managing was preseason. Um, and we're talking about, um, some players and whether they were ready for the season or whatever. I don't remember what it was now, something like that. It was like six games in or something like that. We had six games in a row real quick after preseason. That was it. Six games in a row really, really quick. And um, we all in in, in a meeting in the sports science department and I just said based on the data of like these players played all preseason, they've run their socks off, they played these six games back to back, they do with the rest. If you want 'em to play all season, like they're, they're gonna need some time to to rest. Basically all the training. Cause he, again, the manager was like big on run him into the ground.
Speaker 1 00:11:25 So I said to his mate who was the fitness coach, I was like, this is what, this is what I'm seeing, this is the data. Like do with it what you will. But that's what I think he like, yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, yeah. Like if that's what you said there, it says then, then propose that say that and look, we'll hopefully we'll, we'll we'll get these guys some rest further get into the meeting and the manager goes, ah, so anything from sports science we need to know about and um, and will do <inaudible> to go, Dan, what? Anything to say like, yeah, just, just let you know Gaffa, you know, these three players, like they've played a lot. You know, there are star players, they're doing really well. Like at some point they're gonna need to rest because they've played three, six games back to back and they played all, all the three, three p games, like probably gave a break at some point.
Speaker 1 00:12:06 He then turned to his mate and went, is that right? Will? And he went, no, that'll be all right. That'll be fine, no problem. Like that. And I remember at that point just going, I'm done. And it was the same week that that had happened with this guy, you know, come in and I was just like, nah, couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it anymore. And um, I, at the time I, my dad was, um, my dad was having a kidney. He was, he was on the kidney transplant list, have a kidney channel. He lived in London Island in Hoff. And it was just like this weird coincidence that all this stuff happened at once and a week after that, pretty much, I had a phone call at six, uh, seven o'clock in the morning. I was in the training route, seven o'clock in the morning, seven in the morning from my dad.
Speaker 1 00:12:43 And my dad would never ring me at six o' in the morning ever. And it was like, yeah, we've had the call like, and have my transplant kind of thing. So I went to the gaff on that list, what happened and he said, look, go home. Like go him, see your dad, whatever, do all that sort of stuff. I went down to see him and I also at that week had a interview at a gym in London for a job. And I could use the excuse of the fact that I had to go see my dad to almost do this interview. Went into London, had the interview with this gym, and that was it. It was all done in this space of like two weeks. I handed my notice in and I just, that moment I realized that I just couldn't do it anymore. I just couldn't see the, the politics and the world of football. And I was like, I couldn't do it. So I decided, I was like, I'm not putting all that work and effort in but the next 18 years to be treated like that guy was, even though he knew loads of stuff and he was really, really good, just couldn't do it to myself. Um, so I, I kind of used that as a reason to, to look.
Speaker 0 00:13:40 And then, uh, did any, at this point, are you thinking I want to run a business or, or anything entrepreneurial or are you just thinking I'm gonna go and be a personal trainer, fitness coach, work in a gym? Like what's in your head at that point?
Speaker 1 00:13:53 At that point it was, I also had a girlfriend at the time. We lived in London, so that was kind of part of that. I think my, my, my initial view was I wanted a bit more autonomy cuz I realized that in football again, I was just working whenever someone else told me to work and the hours were ridiculous and I thought well being a p two more hours. Um, but I think I'd also kind of wanted a bit of my, my life back. Cause I felt like I'd given away so much to try to make it in football between the age of, like I said, probably, you know, 18 to 23. I hadn't really done any holidays, hadn't been traveling like my friends had been traveling, hadn't really lived their lives, hadn't really lived with housemates that I really not like, liked to live with other than <inaudible>.
Speaker 1 00:14:33 You know, all those guys went on to London together and lived together again in London. And I think at that point I just wanted to live in London for a couple of years and just, just see what came with it. Just be a PT in London that is money in London. Be a pt, see what happens. Um, and yeah, it was just, it was just a bit of an adventure more than anything at the time. I think it was just uh, 20, I think it was 23, 24. Um, and I just decided to what happens, it was never, it was never, uh oh, I'll go work for myself and be this, you know, be this business or anything up. Cause the gym I went to was third space and at the time at Third Space, one of the reasons I chose them was because you were actually employed.
Speaker 1 00:15:15 So you had had a very small, a small to be fair base salary, but then you took a percentage cut of your clients and you effectively got given your clients on the gin floor. It wasn't like a rent model when I had to go and cameras for my clients. Like you, you stayed there long enough, you would get given leads, you know, not, not not shit loads, but you would regularly kind of get people sent you away via emails cause this so and so just joined the gym. They've got five, three class sessions, you know, reach out to them and say if we want pt. Um, so yeah, it was, it was, we rocked up. Um, and me and Tom Hall started in the same week. Um, and me and Tom still a podcast together now. And we rocked up on the first week and it was weird cause we both, he'd done exactly the same thing, only with a different football club and he was in performance analysis and he had exactly the same experience.
Speaker 1 00:16:04 And we both came together without first week. We were chatting about obviously what we experienced in football. Um, and yeah, we, we kind of were a bit competitive. And I'll never forget we sat down with the, with the manager at the time. He was a really good guy. He sat down and um, and he just said, look guys, he said your knowledge level with where you come from, you've got the opportunity here to, to smash this. Like you could be the top performing trainers, um, if you do this the right way. Uh, and he said, you know, the most anyone's ever done in the first, um, in their first month as as a PT here is 50 sessions. So I'd expect you guys to be somewhere close to, to doing 50 sessions within a month. And we were like, we both look at each other obviously like competitive from football.
Speaker 1 00:16:42 We're like, come on, see what we can do kinda thing. Um, he won. It's really hard again from that, like, uh, I think I won, I think it was 60, I got 60, 65 maybe. I think he got 62, something like that. I wouldn't say the exact number on the top of my head, but it was closed. But we both would've won it if it was not for the other one being there kind of thing anyway. Um, yeah. And, and it's funny how we took the same principles from what we'd done in football to get, to get to that point, which was work, work on <inaudible>, be there, be be person, um, be personable people, be sociable, you know, be a decent person. We tried the same things and, and it paid off in, in once one pt, you know, we just spent every hour there.
Speaker 1 00:17:22 So like when you first start, most PTs when they go started and like that is they do their shifts, they get given their leads via email, they email them, they'll come in, they'll do them and go home and they're kind of, you know, they're kind of basking the free time a little bit. Um, whereas we were there like, well, we might as well stay all day. We're nothing else to do. We might as well see, speak to people and be, be near the sales office. Like so again, there was a sales desk where the guys who were sitting around the gym, he'd upsell them into their, their gym membership and then he'd be like, oh, you got five free personal training sessions. And then me and Tom would literally sat on the sofa while he was saying that to them and they, and they would be like, oh yeah, that sounds really good.
Speaker 1 00:17:56 Can we get booked in tomorrow? And he'd literally turn it and go, damn Tom, you got any time tomorrow? And people couldn't figure it out that we were getting all these people and how, and I was like, well, we're just not stupid like you are going home and we just sat right here and we could speak to these people. We see them and we guys, so what, you know, what, what you're interested in. I wanna lose that one game. Must someone do this. And it was just, I, I found it quite, I don't wanna say easy, but to us it seems straightforward at least maybe we're not easy but straightforward. It's be, be a person, be human show, show you that you've got a sense of humor and that you're a decent person to spend time with and it'd probably be alright. Right. Um, and guess that's kind of how, how it started and, and like even at that point we never really had any other views of, than wanting to be full at that point or whatever we deem to be full, um, at that point.
Speaker 1 00:18:43 Um, and yeah, I suppose another thing left now is at this point I was doing some online coaching on the side. So I was doing bits of, of online coaching, um, but never anything, like, never you a huge amount class. Most had that point would be eight or nine or something like that, charging six, six months at that point, you know, the highlight. Um, so that was for me is again, I I wanted a certain number of clients cause I also had the online stuff that was, that was, again, I worked with another company, so it was a case of I didn't have to do loads and loads of work. I just had to kind of do the bit of social media, uh, and then they would again send me your way because they'd ask for you on a website or, you know, they'd say they weren't gonna have a preference and you just gave even leave that way. So for me, there wasn't really much of a business, it was just a case of I just gave away percentage. Whoever I answer someone else to find leads for me.
Speaker 0 00:19:34 Yeah. When did the transition to fully online happen? Was that next? Was that after Third Space or, or was it, was there anything else between
Speaker 1 00:19:43 Yeah, it was, yeah, it was after Third Space. So I've been at Third Space for a while, um, ah, quite how long? Two years maybe wasn't too long, but again, I got full pretty quick. So again, first month I, I got to 60, 60 sixties, um, and I only ever wanted to do 80, 80 90 a month because of the way I wanted my, my sort of schedule to be structured. And, and I was lucky that quite quickly got full, uh, and then managed to kind of manipulate my timetable as I wanted it to be. So I'd only worked, I'd worked pretty much most mornings and only two evenings was my thing. I didn't want to stay in the evening. I wanted to, to do most of my stuff in the morning. So did that. And, um, I got lucky enough to work with a very, um, a very exclusive client while I was there and he'd got a bit, bit, bit in bit of training with them.
Speaker 1 00:20:31 Um, and then it was when Laura, it was when Laura fell pregnant, so when she fell pregnant, we kind of like looked at and we were like, do we want to bring up, bring up Isabel in London just a bit, like, I'm not really sure if it's what we want to do. Um, and at the time I've joined, um, I was part of Team Box with Mike, um, Steve, Chris, Laura, and, and again we were <inaudible> and Irn about kind of like, okay, if we were to really go for this and kind of make it bigger, as big as we think it could be, we probably need to spend more time together. So it orders kind of came together really at the time we were like, look, let's just, let's just take a lead and go, right, we're gonna make this happen. Make this online coaching thing a, a real business.
Speaker 1 00:21:11 Think at the time I might have had 15, 15 to 20 clients maybe online, um, which was nowhere way near enough to, to support a family in, in bath or whatever. Um, but it was one of those standard things that you get into as a, as a, as a coach, which is, I'm doing a bit of, a bit of in person, a bit of online, you're kind of happy with both, but one on their own wouldn't be enough to do what you wanted to do. Um, so I did the ballsy thing and just went, right, well, yeah, I just, just just move. And me and Lloyd decided to just, um, to just make the, the trip because look, luckily because we are in a gym where you were employed, Laura had some maternity pay for six months at least. Not a lot, but at least had something, um, which you wouldn't get.
Speaker 1 00:21:54 Most PTs wouldn't get, of course if they, if pt. So Laura's a p as well, sorry, for for added context. Um, yeah, we just decided to, um, make the leap, which I've done up to this point. I said this to, to Mike on unusual, usually we did no longer. I said, every time I've done that, it's, it's kind of paid off. So I was like, screw it, just do it. Um, yeah, I took the leap to go into football up, up in hall and I took the leap to move down to London and it was just a case of well, screw it. Let's just do it again. Back yourself and, and go for it.
Speaker 0 00:22:24 Yeah, I think there, there's two ways to look at that. And the same like if I, if I, if I decide I'm gonna go for something, it's a, a leap of faith, no parachute, you know, figure it out and, you know, jump off the cliff, figure out the parachute on the way down. Um, but it's not for everyone. And I think a lot of people kind of make that leap of faith without, without having that experience of yeah, I know, I'll figure it out because I've done X, Y, Z before. Um, or I've put the work in prior to it. Um, so you've, you've taken this leap of faith, you've joined Teambox, which is effectively like an online coaching company mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, as a member of the team. Um, and that doesn't quite work out long term. So obviously without going into too much detail, Mike has gone into a bit of detail on that as well. For those of you listening, if you wanna listen to Mike's podcasts, um, you go into a bit more detail, but that doesn't really work out. Um, so you just wanna speak on that briefly and then, and then how, you know, biceps and banter kind of grew from that.
Speaker 1 00:23:23 Yeah, so it, it, it, it kind of came about cause it was effectively, um, five people who all had a different way of what maybe direction we should take. And ultimately it became two sides that were just put in heads the whole time, me and Mike, and then the other two, I say two, me and Mike the other. Then we have a female group, Laura, um, who went her own way as well in end. So you could obvious say it's three class sides to it, but just regularly butting heads on what we should and shouldn't do. And we just felt like there was a lot of time wasted personality clashes what and shouldn't be done. And me and Mike just spent a lot of time together through that and, and, and because of the, the, the clashes and what should and shouldn't be, it was like, you know, things like what should be put out on social media, what should be done for launches and all this sort of thing.
Speaker 1 00:24:09 Um, the, the main guy, Steve didn't want his, his name associated too much to maybe some of the stuff saying I'm talking about, which again, his prerogative I suppose certainly. But it then became very clear that it was his thing, not it was supposed to be like a joint thing. We were all in it together. And then it quickly became apparent and maybe might as move to this in more detail that it wasn't, it was kind of like, well I don't want my name associated to that stuff mean, I thought this was a, a group thing. So that was kind of where Bias's amount started, was YouTube channel. Um, we were like, okay, cool, okay, we haven't got your name. We'll put it separately. We'll just put out some, some fun videos and do what we wanna do. Um, so yeah, that, that's kind of how the channel came about.
Speaker 1 00:24:48 And then it just became apparent that as we started doing more and more of 'em that they like said it was just we were growing apart in terms of what we believe or we thought the best way of going about things was. Um, and uh, yeah, I suppose another leap of faith was taken where it was like, uh, something happened that was kind of a big, a big thing that happened. Um, it was funny enough when I was away training my client, my sort of quite exclusive client I trained at the time, I was away training him for a couple of weeks in Paris and um, Mike was away on holiday at the time I think as well. And something had done behind our back that we'd all planned been changed to suit the other person's, um, way of doing things. And we were just like, I'm done.
Speaker 1 00:25:25 We're just done. We're like, when we get back we're telling them we're done and we're going our own way. So we decided to, to again take another leap of faith and do that. And I remember we were a bit nervous at the time, but less nervous this time because we were like, no, we genuine believed that this is will be bigger. And um, there's this false sense of security. I think sometimes as a group, um, even if things aren't going well, you kind of assume, well it's the like she responsibility thing of, well if, if I do badly, everyone else is badly, so it's not as bad, which is ridiculous when you think about it. But, um, was a bit of that. So you just decided to, um, to run with the YouTube channel and, and kind of go all in on it really. Um, and not as if we'd be able to do everything our way and how we wanted to do it, um, instead to say it's, uh, worked out all right.
Speaker 1 00:26:10 I think so, yeah, it's, um, yeah, that's productive just the YouTube channel and it's, and it's, and it and it's now much more than that. But, but again, the same, I think the same message is still there. I think throughout our, our time of working together, I think the same one thing that we've never waven on is our message, even in across right or wrongly, but again, it's, it's led to us doing okay the business. So we kind of again, felt a bit vindicated in our to go right with the Dar own thing. I think the two guys, um, are not, not kind of doing as well maybe. So it kind of feels a little bit like, well at least we've grown and marketed everything our own way and we've kind of worked out for, for the best for us. So that's kinda the way we about now.
Speaker 0 00:26:53 Yeah. So Biceps and banter today is one-to-one online coaching. Do you have your clients, Mike has his, you have a team of coaches, um, a group program and obviously a business education mentoring element to it as well. Um, what I want to kind of ask you about is, you know, having a, a team of co-founders effective effectively didn't really work or business partners didn't really work at teambox, but it has obviously for you and Micah, um, biceps and banter. Why do you think that is? Like what's important from, from a, you know, people who are interested in finding a partner for example? So just to give this a bit of context, you know, we've, you know, kind of got into the world of Silicon Valley and investors and, and all that stuff with Stratus. Then what we found is most investors won't even give you the time of day if you don't have a co-founder, if you don't have business partners, if you don't have a, the team of co-founders. Um, so it's super common, right? Most big businesses will have two or three people who found the company, but in fitness it's just don't say unheard of but super uncommon. Um, so going back to the question, why didn't it work at Team Bots compared to why it has worked at biceps and banter and do you think more people should consider partnerships?
Speaker 1 00:28:18 Uh, good question. I think, um, I think it didn't work with Teambox cause it was too many. It was five people who were um, who were thrown together and told I suppose that you are all a part of this, you're on equal part of it. Um, and there was a lot of different voices, like different way of doing things and I think it would've been different had it been that we were like co-founders and we had people working underneath us doing the bulk of the work. But the problem was that we were all at such a small level of a, of a, I don't even call it stark at that level, it's just five people working together, is that our own individual income was dictated by our clients and then there was kind of like this overarching brand which kind of like dictated how well that did even though it was down towards as individuals to get our own clients as it were.
Speaker 1 00:29:01 So it kind of felt a little bit like, well we're being hamstrung by a big brand message but we can't do things that we know would work to get one-to-one clients. Which kind of was a bit a bit annoying from, from that point of view. Um, and I think as well, like, just to be honest, I just don't think, I don't think the chemistry was right between all the people that were there. I think it was that that was, that's what it comes down to. I don't think it was a case of there was anything amazing wrong, probably a bit naive in business sense as well. We just hadn't really run businesses at that point. We were just, we were just all online coaches or PTs previously and been thrown together in our first kind of thing together. Um, so I wonder how many of those people like saying Silicon Valley stuff and the co-founders strike, you know, strike lucky with the first thing they do together or first thing they ever do.
Speaker 1 00:29:41 I'd imagine there's a bit of, this is the few failed things first to realize, well I don't like working with type that type of person or I do like working with that type of person. And I think for me it might, the reason that we sort of branched off together was that our values were just pretty much the same. Um, we spent a lot of time together not only in a work sense but also personally like our sense of humors are the same, we get on like the same things on TV and all that sort of stuff. So it was very much a case of our values were aligned from, from that point of view. Um, and we get on outside of work. Like we, if we were just to go for, for a drink or food or, or or watch some sport, we'd have similar views in similar ways to doing things.
Speaker 1 00:30:16 But for us, the biggest thing in our sense of humor is, is the thing that that that kind of binds us as it were. Um, which I think you're saying that most, most friends I suppose I think you probably get on mainly cause you find them fun to be around or you, you know, you find the same thing's funny. Um, and, and it kind of led into our fitness content I suppose to a certainly as well. And I think the key thing with, with having someone in a partnership is that you have the same values, which I think is is key. But then also that you have different strengths. So we have the same values, we know what we want out of our business, but we have different strength within it. So Mike is a little bit more creative and probably a little bit more, um, comes up with more ideas, comes up with more of the strategy maybe for like what would be good in the future where we can go with things and I'm more of the person that actually turns that into a reality of what does that look like from a logical standpoint and how are we gonna make that work?
Speaker 1 00:31:08 Um, rather than, I think if you have a, both of you that are just super, super creative ideas, there's someone you're gonna clash and you're gonna go, well mine is better and mine is better. Whereas we just both know our role and we go, well Mike's more than someone that's gonna drive those four thinking ideas. And I go, right, how's that actually gonna physically work? Like how are you gonna create that launch sequence or that email sequence to make it something viable? And they'll go, oh yeah, you can't or whatever. And, and it's just having different strengths I think, um, that you kind of fill the gaps for each person. So where I'm a little bit less on the creative side, he, he fills that gap where, whereas when I'm more technical with good, better with cameras and editing and computers, it fills all those gaps there.
Speaker 1 00:31:48 Um, which which I think has probably been our main, our main strength, um, as a, as a partnership. I mean we have different strengths but we know the end goal and the values that we've got are the same. Um, and that's what I suggest you would look for, they're looking for someone in, in a partner is it has to be, you have to agree on the same values. Like you, for me, you couldn't have someone who's like a broad bodybuilder loves meal plans, work with someone who's a flexible diet and like think you can go out and drink something you want can, cause at some point those values are gonna mismatch whether it's to do hard work, whether it's to do with your work ethic like said, whether it's to do with just knowledge gaps in terms of like, I believe that you don't need to be this smart to be this coach or you, I believe it should be this simple or whatever it is. Um, I think that would be, there would be some book at some point. So I think there's value and what you believe the industry should look like should be like custom match up. Um, then the sort of the, I suppose the knowledge gaps thing can be filled in in terms of the tech or in terms of the actual business, um, creativity, whatever, that kind of side thing. I dunno if that's what you found is your stuff. Well, but um, that's what we found.
Speaker 0 00:33:00 Yeah, definitely. I think that, yeah, I think you've nailed it. The, the most important things are shared values. Um, I think being aligned on what the goal is and the mission is and, and that can obviously help and I think obviously that changes often, but having a kind of, this is kind of where we think we're heading and as long as that's the same, that's great. And then ideally some complimentary skills or, um, and not just both the same. Um, yeah, I think, I think that is important. One of the, one of the things that you've done, which I think is becoming more common as well is you've built a team. So you've got a team of coaches, so it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on how you found that pros and cons, uh, let's start there. So how you found it and, and kind of the good, the bad, the ugly.
Speaker 1 00:33:51 Yeah, I mean this started when we worked, started when we were working with you really, I suppose in terms of when we developed, um, you know, our group coaching program with you. Um, you basically told us to stop, sit on the hands and fucking get out there in the world. Um, and, and then hiring and you know, again, that's kind of, I suppose the main thing. You helped with you, you'd done that before we hadn't. And I just feel like, I don't wanna say mistakes were made cause that makes it sound bad as when we picked the wrong people. That's not, that's not the case. People that we've worked with have been great and we picked them for a reason and all that sort of stuff. I just think you quickly realize when you bring on, you bring on coaches that you need a completely different set of skills to manage those people.
Speaker 1 00:34:30 Um, and I think it's something we probably weren't ready for. I think that there's an assumption where, again, we talked about this quite a lot. There's this assumption that people who work with you can, can reade your mind and like that they have the same shared values and they know exactly how you would do something or they know exactly how it should be done. And if you are someone who runs a business or owns a business and you do things at a higher level than what you perceive to be a higher level than people and, and that sort of stuff, you have to understand not everyone sees the world that way. Not everyone will put that same level level of effort in, you know, just naturally. Um, they will see it as in they're gonna clock in and clock out cause it's their job, not their whole life. Whereas for us it can, I suppose, you know, blur the lines between work and life a little bit with, with being, you know, in business, being an entrepreneur, whatever you wanna call it. Um, so I feel like for us it was very much a case of we were poor managers and poor communicators, um, of, of those coaches. Um, that's the main, the main thing I would say that is a is a weakness and something that we still work on today and that we have to work on consistently.
Speaker 1 00:35:38 You can't assume that people know exactly what you mean or what you want. Uh, you have to, again, if you told us the first time did this, you have to write things down and have things written down that this is how things are done. That's the, that's the protocol, follow it. Any questions, let me know. But that's the protocol and it's those sorts of things, um, that I think you, you come into, you, you just come up against problems with that I think. Um, and no one prepared you for that and anything you can be prepared for it. I think managing people is, is quite a unique thing. I think the only way you're gonna learn how to do it is exactly the same way that anyone learns under any skill, which is just by doing it, messing up and, and going, right, well we've failed there so we'll be better next time in doing that.
Speaker 1 00:36:16 Um, and I think we still mess up now. I still don't think we're great communicators. We still don't think we're great managers. Um, we're getting better, but we are still very young at it in terms of experience levels. Um, so we can't expect to be amazing. But I do think for us we got, again, it's that whole thing that was a business owner getting sucked into delivery and their management. And at some point you can't remove yourself from delivery instantly. You have to have this, this period of time where you kind of slowly read yourself into delivery and then you can start to manage people to do the jobs effectively. And then you start seeing people doing the delivery and they don't do it as well as you and you're like, oh, I'll just, I'll just do it myself. And that's like the worst thing you can do because then they don't learn and then you get something to do in the work anyway.
Speaker 1 00:36:58 Um, and, and that I, again, I don't know, but I, I think for us that process will take a lot longer than, than it will for most people. Um, cause we're like still delivery element of it. Um, you know, it is, it is gonna take time and I think when you work in a personal business, like online coaching is, it's not as easy to remove yourself, um, as it may be a product based thing. You've got a product based, you know, business. You could probably train someone up and go, this is how you do <inaudible> button, you do this and it, it's a little bit easier with what we do. It's just so customer facing. Um, you can't just handle your clients up to someone else and go, right, we'll make the same amount of money and then we'll go and do this other thing elsewhere.
Speaker 1 00:37:35 It doesn't quite work like that. It's, there's a very much a, a longer transition period, um, which we struggled with initially I think as well, uh, and still struggle with now, um, is is how we can get more time back to, to management effectively so the business can can kind of run. Because I think if you look at our business now, look at the revenue numbers. You might be like, oh you could sell it for a decent amount of money if it was anything other than a service based thing. But the problem is we are still very much involved in the delivery. So it's not worth X amount of money. Even if revenue might look great, it's not worth that much when you couldn't just sell it. Whereas I imagine flex say this is like yours, you can get to a certain level, you can sell it cause it doesn't matter if I own it or someone else integrates for our business, it does matter if we own it. Um, so I think that's probably the, the thing that I would say that's quite soft when it comes to, to hiring coaches is, is that, you know, very hands on. Um, you have to be very, very good at managing them and get up to up to speed in terms of, you know, what you expect for, for delivery. Uh, it just takes longer than I think some people will expect it to.
Speaker 0 00:38:35 There are two sides to this though, right? So if this is gonna be become more common, there's gonna be more coaches doing well and looking to hire, there's obviously gonna be more opportunities for coaches who will probably do well working for other coaches. Um, and it's probably, well it is, it's a, it's a new role hasn't been around for longer than a few years where a an online coach can come in and, and be a part of the team. Um, what advice would you give to a coach to help them be a great, uh, member of somebody else's coaching team? Add value to the business. Um, how could they, you know, just, just do a great job and, and add, like I said, advise to the business.
Speaker 1 00:39:17 I think again, making that person's, making that person's life easier that you work with and don't say work for 'em. Cause I don't think you ever work in this kind of interest I thing you work for them. There's definitely working with them. Element to it is, I would assume again like that they're like us and that they're not, they're gonna be the best managers, the best people that managing you. If, if again, it's a fairly new role, new thing and, and I would say take the, take the initiative to ask that person what you expect, what, what's expected of you. Say, what do you want me to do on a daily basis, weekly basis? What would you think would be good to do? What, what are what are my expectations in terms of lead generation doing my own stuff and what are you gonna do for me that I don't have to worry about?
Speaker 1 00:39:55 I think that's the key, the key thing is being very, very clear on on what you provide and what you give. So given, so giving insight into that, what we do, we don't, um, provide sort of direct lead generation as in you are gonna get X number of leads through every single week and you're gonna email them and you're gonna send them. That's not what what we provide, what we offer is a group coaching program that runs a pretty successfully has over a hundred people in it per intake. We do five to six intakes a year and there's an opportunity to upsell those people into coaching. But you still have to post your own content. You still have to make sure that your present on social media stuff to be yourself. And what we provide is, well you don't have to worry about any email marketing, you don't have to worry about any launches of any of those products.
Speaker 1 00:40:37 You don't have to worry about any admins from that side of stuff. You just have to turn up on social media. They be yourself. Um, you're still gonna get organic leads in as we do normally, but under our brand, you, you have that I suppose elevated status of being part of the brand, a bit of exposure to, to a certain degree, um, being part of that brand. But it's, it's more a case of, well you get to have a group coaching program that you couldn't run on your own cause you don't have the infrastructure. Um, and likewise you don't have the money to pay for ads. Maybe, you know, um, marketing and copyright in email launches, all that sort of stuff. Um, so it's just about being very clear on what you provide. Cause I think some people have this assumption if it was to join online coaching company, they would just get given all their leads and some of them do get given all their leads.
Speaker 1 00:41:18 And I would say that is you expect a much higher percentage to be taken off that and given, you know, given to the company. So I think for us, what we provide is a lot fairer in terms of percentage that we would take as a company, um, because of what we expect. That person maybe is a little bit higher than what others expect. Cause I've seen some coaches join coaching companies who I know of and they just don't post on social media, they just don't, they never turn on social media. And I'm like, well that's a pretty cool gig for that coach, but again, expect to not make huge amounts of money per client that you wouldn't do if you work with us because we still want to have a presence on social media and all that sort of stuff. So straight away it would be ask that company what you expect, what's expected of you on a daily basis and what you know they don't have, what you don't have to worry about effectively. Uh, and I think that will be a good place to start then, you know, from day one, right? I start present social media or start to do this, I start to do this or whichever way. Um, I think that would be the, the main thing, um, I would say.
Speaker 0 00:42:19 Cool. Okay. So biceps and banter successful once one online coaching business for yourself, for Mike team of coaches with once one online coach, uh, online clients at a successful group program. So why have you moved towards business mentoring and business coaching? Business education?
Speaker 1 00:42:38 Um, mainly because we, at the time were coaching a lot of personal trainers, so probably I would say a third, third of my clients, mainly my client a little bit more, let's, about third of my clients were, were personal trainers and we just regularly asked, well what would you do here? What would you do here? Like, you got any advice on this? Any advice on that? Um, and then we were kind looking around at some of the advice that we'd seen, you know, be given by other people, um, other mentors and other, other people in our space that we we'd known of and heard of and all that sort of stuff. Um, and we're just like looking around and being like, hang on a minute. We've got a pretty successful business here. We haven't done anything that they're talking about. Like anything. Like they were talking about some really, really, you know, weird stuff.
Speaker 1 00:43:25 Um, so we're just kind of like, is this advice even, right? Like, we're not sure and obviously like we work with you. And we got to a position where, again, with, with you it was, there was never any sort of like crazy tactics. It was more a case of like, well, does that align on what you want outta your life and your business? Is that gonna work for you? What's the end goal? Like, it was all very much a case of like, you listen to us first and then we talk about what the outcome might be. And it seemed as though everyone else was just handing out the same blueprint to people and going, well do this and we'll get clients. And we would just see some of the content that we're going out and some of the things that our clients are being told to do by the mentors.
Speaker 1 00:43:56 We were just like, why would you do that? Like, that seemed bonkers. And we'd get clients say to us, well, I've been told to do this, but I noticed you guys never do it and you guys do all right. We're like, yeah, we do. All right. We haven't done that. And it just, it just, it just came about. Cause we were like, okay, what is the next evolution of what we're doing? Are we just gonna coach people one-to-one fat loss forever? No, we weren't gonna do that. So then we were like, okay, cool. So what's the next logical step? Well, we're getting these questions, we're getting the blast. Cause these questions you already trained into PTs. Is there a market for us to go into this area? And we were a bit nervous about it. Cause I don't think it's a particularly well respected area, um, of, of the industry.
Speaker 1 00:44:33 I think it's full of, full of people who are out there to make a quick buck. Um, and I, I'll be honest, I don't think any of them know as much as maybe there might be, it looks like they know and all that sort of stuff. I think a lot of vision regurgitated and things like that. Um, and it, and it came back down to when we started doing one-to-one coaching. We were always like, there's people out there selling meal plans, selling chicken, broccoli and rice. You know, Mike had fallen for that and he was a body builder. I'd done it to a certain view and I think uni. Um, and we used to remember saying to people, well if we don't fight against it, we're part of the problem. If we don't highlight this is wrong and there's other ways of doing it, there's a better way of doing it.
Speaker 1 00:45:11 We are kind of part of the problem. And we kind of applied the same logic then to the, to the business. I like to call a coach and I hate the word mentoring. Um, I know that's what we're gonna get called, but I just, I just think it's such a negative connotation. But we were like, well let's see if we can coach coaches and how to do what we've done and how we've got where we are. And we can start putting some content out and see if people like it and see if people think there's a, you know, that we can help them. And that's, that's literally how it evolved was we had enough people that followed us for long enough, um, that were like, yeah, we want your help. And we've not been doing it long. Um, maybe what six, seven months in already.
Speaker 1 00:45:47 And I'd say 50% of our clients each now are, are, are coaches that are asking for, for business help. And I, I still feel a little bit of an imposter syndrome with it, but I also feel that that's a good sign. I think I've always felt that in any job, new job or new role that I've taken on, I felt that in football, I felt that was a pt. I remember being nervous as anything at my first BT session, even though I'd trained professional footballers for, you know, doing sessions outside. It still held nervous in this one to one BT session. And I think it's always a good sign. So I was like, well let's just embrace it. Um, cause we know we're doing the right thing. We know we are ethical, we know we've got the right people, you know, people to dress at heart.
Speaker 1 00:46:19 We'll do it our way. We'll do it differently. Um, and and the feedback so far has been on our content, our stuff like, yeah, you guys just do it differently. Everyone else is saying this stuff, but you are saying the opposite and you've been successful. We've got clients that have been successful doing the same thing. And it's kind of yeah, are, we've always got about things really, which is to do things a little bit differently, um, and show people that again, it's, there's no blueprint. It's a case of yeah, there's principles you could do following, but I don't like seeing everyone being put through the same, the just the same thing everyone. And it's like, well if you don't succeed, it's, you are the problem. And it's like, well no, it's just that the blueprint wasn't right for you. So we kind of like taking different approach to it.
Speaker 1 00:46:58 Um, which again, isn't, isn't as sexy, isn't as, isn't as big on the money side of things, but it is a case of, you know, well, you know, you put the work in and you work hard enough in a year's time. You could be in a position where you've got a full-time salary as an online coach. Um, and I think that the thing that we hate about the industry is just how it's sort of becomes so money orientated and so driven on, on, on being successful based on how much money you make per month. And you know, you see some of the figures thrown around and you know, I dunno, I dunno the quick math on it, but you know, if you, if you've got 20 clients, no. If you've got 30 clients paying you 150 pound a month, is that four and half grand a month?
Speaker 1 00:47:35 I think it's four half grand a month. Um, that's a, that's a, that's that's a ridiculous wage for most people. That's, that's a, that's a really good amount of money. You know, you are talking some high level people, you know, high level jobs getting paid that amount of money and for some reason for my coach, that's not good enough. Like that's not okay. Like you've only got 30 clients paying one 50 pounds. And to me it just seems mental. Like I was starting professional football on 22 round a year and I know for a fact that there's people at that level now being paid less than four and a half around a month and they are higher than I was at that time. They in their thirties. And it just seems this massive disconnect. So it's that kind of for us is, is why we want to go into this and show people, well look, you work hard and get 30 clients in a year's time.
Speaker 1 00:48:15 That is an amazing result. But the way it's thrown around at the moment is, well you should be able to get that in 30 days. It's like mental, like no, like you'll do very well to do that in 12 months. But you know, even if it took two years, why is that a problem? If it takes two years, why is that a problem? Like, you might actually figure out more by it taking two years cause you'll know what works, what doesn't work. Um, so yeah, it was kind of, for us it was, it was a natural progression I suppose channel our passion for the industry, um, in a way we can help people again, stop being screwed over, stop being ripped off. Um, and, and kind of bring a bit of realism I think to, to the, to the space because it doesn't seem to be a lot of it, it seems to feel all very pinless, sky and you know, crazy, crazy numbers and crazy things we were talking about. And we were like, well actually the the, as we mostly the fitness is not black and white. There's, there's shade of gray there. And and that's kind of for us is where we, we spend a lot of our time, um, yeah, I suppose posting content and talking about
Speaker 0 00:49:11 Amazing. And is that what the future holds for biceps and banter? So what, what's the plans for the next five years? Three, five years? What, what, where's this heading?
Speaker 1 00:49:22 Honestly, we, we don't have, we don't have any huge, huge plans. Um, which sounds pretty bad. I think we probably should have a plan in place, but I think when we look back and realize that we've been doing for four years, it kind of makes us realize, is it former funding five, four or five? It kind of makes us realize there's no point making plan for five years. Cause we would never, in our wildest view assume we'd be here. Um, never. Like if you just said to me five years ago, you know, we live in Dubai with my new largest business that's doing this amount. I'd be like, I just got your mental, uh, mainly cause I've barely knew Mike at that point. But, um, but yeah, so, so it is kind of hard for us to, to kind of answer that I suppose and kind of think about it.
Speaker 1 00:50:03 But for us at the moment, again, it's going down this route and it's, and it's really helping, helping these guys get to where they want to be. And I'm sure at some point we'll we'll be full with those type of clients and we'll get to a point where we can't take on more people. Cause again, we're not that way inclined where we're gonna water down our service so much. So we'll get full and there will come a point where we have to think about what we're doing and whether that is that we coach some of our other coaches up to this level where they can provide this level of, um, and we can take a bit more of a backseat on some delivery potentially. Um, but I, I I, I said I think that's probably the, the main thing for us. We've always kind of just looked at the next goal, the next step, and then from there we then go, right, what's the next thing we're gonna focus on?
Speaker 1 00:50:41 So for us it will be get forward with, with our sort of coaching clients, um, from a, from a sort of, I suppose a business coaching point of view. Um, and then see where, where we need to go and where the gaps are, you know, I suppose are, are there in the market potentially, um, at that point. Cause it's such a fast changing thing that's thing of fitness and, and all that sort of stuff. Um, it, it's forever changing, but I'm sure there'll be, um, there'll be something on the horizon which will be uh, be new and unique and all that sort of stuff. But I think we've worked so hard to get to where we are now. There is definitely an element of wanting to enjoy a little bit of the fact that we can take a bit more time to ourselves potentially. Um, I think we've worked long enough to maybe sort of enjoy it a bit more of the, the life and the whole work life balance.
Speaker 1 00:51:25 Um, if not for, if not for, yeah, just for, for a short period of time, uh, before we really kick on maybe. But, um, who knows? I'm sure there'll be something, there'll be something that will take our eye in in the, in the near future. But anyone, we consider what we have achieved, what I've achieved in the year since we've been out here, we looked at the day and we were just like, you just forget. You just don't, you're just take it for granted. You're always looking ahead and looking at the future. You want more, you want this, you want that. And I think when you look back sometimes you realize, you know, in Covid, I remember when we messaged each other and Covid, we thought, we thought Covid could have been it. We were like, that could, that could have done as it did so many businesses in, we were just like, well people aren't gonna spend money on this now cause they not having money. And Cody was actually exposed that business and actually made it bigger cause of the, but we didn't know. I didn't get any moment you feel like could be taken away from you. So you kind of always have that fear and, and worry could sell that. So it's um, yeah, who knows, who knows? For now just, uh, play, play golf. That's the main thing. That's why I care about
Speaker 0 00:52:24 Play golf. Let that unhealthy scarcity, uh, drive the business forward. It's fine. That's
Speaker 1 00:52:29 It. Exactly that, exactly that feeling. They could all just disappear tomorrow. Yeah, that's the, that's
Speaker 0 00:52:33 Really nice. Embrace it. Embrace that fear. Yeah. Um, cool. Okay, are you up for some quick fire questions to finish?
Speaker 1 00:52:41 Oh, go on man.
Speaker 0 00:52:43 Why did you move to Dubai?
Speaker 1 00:52:47 Why did you move to Dubai? Uh, I'd be lying if I didn't say tax was a huge reason. Um, Mike was here and that was another reason. Uh, and golf was another reason. Um, but yeah, it was very much, uh, a multitude of things. Um, I think as, as you know from me out here as well, I think that kids' education was always a huge part of it. Safety was a huge part, part of it. The weather was a huge part of it. Um, all those things combined I think just led to um, taking a leap again, taking another leap. And again, it was backing myself a little bit. Fuck it, taking the leap. What's the worst that could happen to me back home again. That was it.
Speaker 0 00:53:21 What's something you hate about the industry?
Speaker 1 00:53:26 Um, how easy people make it look. Well they, how mu then they say how easy. It's, that's the thing that frustrates me the most because I know that they've worked their nuts off to get where they are. They annoys me.
Speaker 0 00:53:38 Yeah. What's the biggest mistake you see other coaches making?
Speaker 1 00:53:44 Probably other coaches don't get it. I do. There's this, there's this copying the coaches who you think are successful don't actually know if it's working for them or not. That's the thing I find odd. Um, just cause someone's got big following, I'll copy their content cause they've got a big following. But as we both know, we know people with big followings are making hardly anyway. Um, yeah, drives me in insane that,
Speaker 0 00:54:06 Uh, to finish on a positive note, what's something you love about the industry?
Speaker 1 00:54:12 Uh, how much you can influence someone's life, um, in a positive way. So, so even from a fat loss point of view, obviously now we do, you know, coaching coach's point of view is knowing that if you're prepared to put some work in, I say some work, a lot of work in you can drastically change your life. Um, I think is is a huge one. Like people who, who like who I coached with fat loss, who have gone on to completely change their health, um, get their cycle back, have kids, you know, it's, it's, that's ridiculous to think that you can have an impact on that. And obviously in terms of business stuff, again, some people we work with being in a position where they don't have to fret about certain things and stuff like that. Um, and having that positive influence is, is good. But like I said, the caveat to that is the fact that it's the, the hard work involved. Um, first knowing that seeing people get that get that reward, um, from, from that hard work I think is, is definitely a thing I love about it.
Speaker 0 00:55:05 Amazing. Last two answers were very similar to, to Mike, people not being themselves and then being able to impact people's lives. In fact the same answers, which is good to see those shared values.
Speaker 1 00:55:16 Scary Yeah. Shared values and all that, but um, but yeah, no, it's, uh, it, i i I think it's one of those industries where I think, look, you've been probably been through the same thing is like you have some weeks where you love it and some weeks where you hate it because one of those two things just gets on your nerves or, or really lights you up, um, depending on which week you're in. And we all have it. We all have those, those ups and downs. I think as well, I think people listen to this like certainly the whole thing about the scarcity stuff that you mentioned now that drives you. It's, you know, some weeks you feel like on top of the world you feel like nothing can touch you and everything's going rosy. You're dreaming about, you know, doubling your income next year and being fantastic and then the next minute you're worried that all your clients might leave you and you have no money and you know, it's just like it's, that's normal. I think the more you have
Speaker 0 00:55:57 Just the reality. Yeah. It's just the reality of running the business bill.
Speaker 1 00:56:03 Yeah, and that's, that's the other thing I think as well about, you mentioned before just finished this about coaches and kinda like whether they're right to be working with someone else or not. I think that's, that that feeling is, is something, if you can ride that feeling out, you're probably fine to be, you know, run your own business. If you feel that really cripples you probably best having someone who, who you can work with and lean on a little bit. Um, I think that's the the key thing for, certainly for me, my, I feel like you've got that accountability for someone else to kind of talk it out with. Its on your own. I think it can be, um, it can be quite debilitating if you don't have a good support network work around you. Um, it's talk through finger cause it's um, it's common. Like say it's it's week to week isn't it? It's up and down like that.
Speaker 0 00:56:42 Yeah. Especially things aren't going well. It, it's, it's easy to ride if things are going well, but if you're struggling and you're on that rollercoaster then you know it's a different ballgame. Right. Dan? Uh, it's been a pleasure mate. If people wanna find you, where should they go?
Speaker 1 00:56:56 Uh, Instagram at dan Biceps banter and then if you go on YouTube you can search for biceps and answer. I'm sure that our channel will come up. Um, cause no one else is stupid enough to call their YouTube channel that. So all good.
Speaker 0 00:57:10 I'm sure I've seen one that's very similar maybe. Um, biceps and booze maybe or beer, I dunno. Very similar.
Speaker 1 00:57:18 Yeah, there is, there is one that's very similar. Yeah, but it's not as good. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:57:23 Not as bad.
Speaker 1 00:57:25 Yeah. <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:57:27 Cool. Well thanks for joining me Dan, and I'll speak to you soon.
