Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:06 Everybody it here and welcome to the Fit Founders podcast. Today I'm joined by a very special guest, Mr. Steve McGraw. Hi Steve.
Speaker 1 00:00:13 Yes, mate. I say that's Hawaii guest, don't you?
Speaker 0 00:00:16 <laugh>? Yeah, we are extra special mate. <laugh>, we've, we've got a history.
Speaker 1 00:00:20 We do have history.
Speaker 0 00:00:22 Uh, thanks for joining me mate. How are you? How's life in Cheshire?
Speaker 1 00:00:27 You know what, it is actually sunny, other than the fact that it's just snowed where, you know, like snowing like Christmas is actually quite nice and then as soon as it gets away from the Christmas period, snow is like just the worst thing ever.
Speaker 0 00:00:40 It's just an inconvenience. Now
Speaker 1 00:00:41 You've got kids, aren't you? So it's different where you got a kid when a dog, which is essentially like a child, but it's a bit different when you've got kids cuz you get all excited about growing out and playing in the snow where it is like when you're an adult, just car crashes and nowhere.
Speaker 0 00:00:55 Yeah. But the thing is I feel like it's been like 10, 15 years since there's been a decent snow, like to actually enjoy. Yeah. If you know what I mean. Anyway,
Speaker 1 00:01:07 It's just the inconvenient part, the inconvenient death that ruins everyone's eyes, but not enough to go sledge in oil in Oma.
Speaker 0 00:01:12 Exactly, exactly. We just need a little bit more, um, not that I experience or will ever experience that out here. Um, cool. So
Speaker 1 00:01:22 Not like over that four seasons in a couple years.
Speaker 0 00:01:26 Yeah. Um, so Steve, we're gonna talk about your, your career, what you're up to today, um, and some spicy opinions that I think we probably probably both agree on. Um, but you are definitely more outspoken than I am nowadays. Um, talk, talking about money and, and a few other bits as well. So you've done really well. We'll talk about all that. But as a starting point, do you wanna just give people a, a really quick rundown of how you ended up in the industry?
Speaker 1 00:01:57 Um, I mean like, I've always been the industry to be honest with you. Um, I worked as a lifeguard when I left school, got my gym instructors, I think it's fitness instructors, technically qualification. Um, so I taught legs, bombs and sums at Bellevue Leisurer Center before, it was before it was the National Basketball Center of Excellence. It was a shit hole at the Leisurer Center <laugh>. Um, so I did that all the way through uni. Um, worked at Virgin Active as well through uni. Um, somehow got talked into doing a teaching degree at the end of uni if I talked. I mean they offered me a really nice bursary to go and do a teaching degree. Um, so I did. And you know, when everyone's like, it's a good job that it's a good job, good pension, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess it is.
Speaker 1 00:02:40 Yeah. So I did it for a little bit and realized the pension was way too far away to be lucrative for me. Um, and I just, I didn't enjoy the role. I, I enjoyed the teaching element of it, like the actual being in the classroom, like doing the lessons and stuff. But there was a, there's a whole other side to the job that like no one ever tells you. Um, and I didn't enjoy it, so I left to be a personal trainer. Um, I was already already qualified for my university and stuff like that and I'd always done a bit on the side anyway, so like, even when I was teaching I was still doing a couple of hours in the morning. So it's a fairly straightforward transition. To be fair. It's probably the only thing that had been a constant, something that I wanted to do for a long time.
Speaker 1 00:03:16 Like I did all the, I did all the sciences and math a level, then I went to uni, did chemistry, then decided I didn't wanna be a chemist, so I did sports science. Then from sports science I did a physics teaching qualification. So like it's the only thing that I'd actually done sort of consistently, like throughout my whole educational life that I, I did get bored of. Um, so it was a natural movement there. Um, I was a PT for a bit, well for a while actually. Then I had an accident, um, ended up with both my patella attendant fever plastic ones, um, which is a head recovery. It's um, maybe about a year before you were able to work properly again. So I went back to teaching for a little bit, watching shortly, took extra paycheck because I hadn't worked for a year and I have to pay.
Speaker 1 00:04:10 Started building the kind stuff back on the side again and then made the move online pretty much as soon as I realized that like, oh, I, I'd track it in the school anymore and it wasn't even worth in the paycheck. And yeah, then launched my online career business that did reasonably well. Um, and then kind of built the coaching, well I didn't really build the coaching collection thing on the side. I started helping our PTs on the side because we were doing well enough for people to start asking me for help. Um, and then made the switch over maybe last year fully. And then, yeah, it's been a bit of a wild year this year, but that's like a whistle stop tour of my whole career really.
Speaker 0 00:04:51 Yeah, I will, I will take some, um, um, longer stops at each stage. I just wanna roll it back a little bit. Why, why did you decide that you wanted to be a personal trainer? I know common answers are I wanna help people or I wanna make lots of money. Like I personally can't even remember why I wanted to become a personal trainer. What was it that, you know, drove you to that career, that profession?
Speaker 1 00:05:16 Um, I lived in the gym since I was like 16. Like I, I go back and like see people now that like I used to know, like when I was in school and like, like to be fair, it was like it all ended up at one side. I started going to the gym. I also had like growth at the same time. So I went from like five, six to five 11 in the space of like two years when from like age stone to like 13 stone in the space years. And then obviously as you grow up as well when you go to college, like you start going out like meeting new people and stuff like that. And it kind of all balled into one. But obviously for me I was like, oh it's cuz I started going to the gym and it just wasn't, it's just cause I grew really and grew up.
Speaker 1 00:06:02 Um, but that for me was like something that I'd always done. And then it was always just a part of my life and like, I was clever like when I was younger, like I was like in gifted and talented in school, like won awards for like my GCSEs, which was quite cool what I went to. Cause it wasn't known for its GCSEs um, scores. But, so like I, I did a lot of like research on the internet when I went training. Like I trade like the power lifters and stuff like that who usually are actually like very smart people, like, like numbers based. It's very methodical. So like I got really strong really quickly and then cuz I got strong quickly started filling out really quickly and I was like, this isn't that hard. Like it's, it's, well it's hard but it's not complicated. I was like, this is really simple. And then I just see people making, like making a real fucking mess of it. <laugh> like, you know, over complicating it, doing all this stuff and like again, I got into it at like, you know, if it fits your macro's age when it like really took off, you know, when people were like dieting on YouTube eating cereal and people like, oh my that I got shredded eating cereal. Like what the fuck? And that was a complete like mind coco pops,
Speaker 0 00:07:08 Oh my cocoa pops
Speaker 1 00:07:10 People, you know, like YouTube just takes it to that next level. It's like I'm gonna get shredded eating McDonald's for every meal of other day. And people were doing it and you're like, I, well at the time I wasn't violent. I bet his insides fucking her. I was just like, well clearly there's more to this. So like that's kind of what I got into training doing. It was like, you know, squat, bench deadlift, like power lifting style stuff, like starting strength and and that kind of shit. And then I was, I still at really well to be honest with you, but it was more like an if it fit macros approach like, you know, my fitness palette like just started but I was doing like if it fit macros like with a pen and a pad at one point, like writing stuff down, like looking at the back of packets and be like, right, I can fit that in, I can fit, it was really obviously like fag packet maths kind of thing.
Speaker 1 00:07:56 But so when I was doing that I was like, this is really easy. Like, it's like simple like to understand, I don't know why more people aren't doing it. So like even then I had like makes that I was like playing football with or basketball with or like, that had just seemed like kind of, you know, what I'd been doing in the gym and how strong I'd got that were asking me to like write on plans and stuff. So like even at that point I was kind of doing it without doing it. So when people said like, oh you're not online coaching is like, not training people in the gym but like just giving 'em a plan to follow and like helping him out with it. And obviously it's
Speaker 0 00:08:29 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:08:29 Grown a lot different than that now, but like, so I was doing that from like 17 just without really realizing it. So it was just a natural progression like, oh well, might actually be able to get paid to do this cuz I was doing it anyway. And, and it kind of just developed from there to be honest with you.
Speaker 0 00:08:46 Was the, um, I'm probably testing your memory there now, but was there like an entrepreneurial element to it? Like, I want to be a business owner or I wanna be an entrepreneur, I wanna make money, I wanna build something. Or was it just a, a very organic,
Speaker 1 00:09:01 When I was younger, like I was like always trying to flip something or sell something. I remember when C V D first came out and I bought fucking loads of them off some lad that was selling them like, you know, like white label. They were just selling me like a brown optical glass bottle. So I like got some labels printed and labeled them up and then started selling 'em off Facebook like that actually that bit, I dunno why I got outta that. It's probably should have stayed with that one, but that's what I was a bit like too
Speaker 0 00:09:26 Early. I was
Speaker 1 00:09:26 Like, yeah, I know early adopter should have got the brand name right and really kind of cemented it. But it was called what, what did I call it? The CBD solution. It was called solution. That was my chemistry brain going, no one else got it. No one else got it. Um, but I was a bit like that. Like not, not like Del Boyish, but like I was always like trying to hustle for something. Um, my dad was, my dad was a ground worker, so he did like roads and pavements and stuff like that and like I'd go out and help him like for day and like I'd get 50 quid and I was like, if you think of 50 good a day, that's sound not, so I was, I like, I was always in that mindset and my dad, like my dad didn't like run a business in a sense of like having loads of staff and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 00:10:12 But my dad was the one that like went out and got the contracts for the work and then hired the blokes and bought the materials. So like, yeah, in in essence like he, he ran a business, um, to do with it and he was always, you know, he was always very similar. Like he was, my dad's always been self-employed or at least like, you know, like when you're a worker, like you don't work for one particular company, it's like 80 stuff. So like he was always quote unquote self-employed and, and my mom was uh, like a teaching instant follow enough. So like I saw both sides of the coin and was kind of gravitated towards like the self-employment side of things.
Speaker 0 00:10:48 And what was their reaction to you leaving teaching to go and pursue life as a personal trainer?
Speaker 1 00:10:53 <laugh> funnily enough, the exact way you'd expect from those two parents. So like my dad was like, fuck it. My my dad obviously understands the process of like, you know, if you work in a corporate role at church fucking age, he's watching, you know, he's watching my mom slave out every single day for the last 30 years and she's still on like less than two grand a month. It's a lot less than two random month. I just don't wanna like out my mom on like how much she makes. But, um, it's, it's not a big wage for a teaching assistant and it, it goes off, but like, so incrementally that inflation probably outpaces it anyway. Whereas my dad could go in, you know, yeah, there's a limit to how much you can do, but if, if you had, if you had more work, if you got good contracts, there was always like sculptor improve faster.
Speaker 1 00:11:34 Um, and you know, like my from, from where we came from and from what my mom and dad like had when, when they got married, like I remember my dad telling me that they had like two p literally left when they got married. They got married in a registry office cuz they couldn't afford a wedding. Um, I was IVF they spent every single last penny that they had on getting that done, but they had nothing after that. Um, so like, you know, we were in a, my dad had got us in like a, a very good position from, from where we started and kind of, that was always like my thought process, this is gonna get really morbid now, but my dad's quite old for like of dad. So my dad's 74 I think actually 73 I always had a year on for some reason.
Speaker 1 00:12:11 So my dad's 73, I'm 31. So when I was younger, like my dad was quite aware of like, he was a bit older of a dad, but he used to always tell me that he was gonna die. Like always tell me like, I'm not gonna be here when you're older, you're gonna have to film for yourself. Like, I'm not gonna be able to look after you. So like, I think I always had this mindset that I always had to like go out and graft and do it myself. And that, that led to some pretty poor choices in my early twenties. Um, but it's also led to some good ones as well. So
Speaker 0 00:12:38 Yeah, it's, it's a strong driver though. Like if you get the choices wrong there, there's no better time to make poor choices than your early twenties.
Speaker 1 00:12:46 Yeah, I mean, fucking doing five to 10 probably wouldn't have been a great idea, <laugh>, that would've quickly fast forward in, into my thirties. Um, but you only do off and then you get out of license notes.
Speaker 0 00:12:56 Exactly. No dramas a lesson learned. So that's amazing. Great start to to, you know, life as a business owner, personal trainer, and then you've moved into online officially obviously the, the first steps into personal training was quote unquote online or remote at least anyway mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but then you kind of did online properly. Um, so just talk to me about how that went and because you had, obviously, I know some details already, it went pretty well pretty quickly. So do you wanna talk about that?
Speaker 1 00:13:28 Yeah, so I'd, I'd always worked in like, quite like good gyms. Not, not quite, quite good, but like the people that came to the gyms that I worked with are in, were, were, were like tr were transformation based gyms. So people came for a certain result. It wasn't like, you know, when you're working like, like a JD or a pure gym, you've gotta kind of take what's there. So like some people will come and be serious, some people will pay you for an hour of your time to be a therapist. Other people will like, you know, geriatrics, you wanna like keep hips moving and stuff like that. We got a very concentrated amount of clients that wanted a very specific thing. Um, so I had a really big portfolio of results by the time I even went online, so love that. I think when I went online, um, first I did like a transformation challenge for like 50 quid for like 20 people.
Speaker 1 00:14:17 Um, and I graphed them, my BOLs off to be fair, to get those 20 people on for the 50 quid. But, um, yeah, like making a grand off the back of that. I remember I supposed to go on holiday the week after I was paid for my holiday now because I paid for the holiday, but I didn't have no money to actually spend on the holiday. So it was gonna be like crisps and hot sandwiches in the village to be that. Um, so like that was the first bit where I was like, I'm gonna in it. Like that's, and in my head, because I already write plans for people anyway and it's something that I've naturally done for years, I'm like, I don't even have to be do anything <laugh>. I have to do, send 'em some plans and check in with 'em every week, which I do with my, my clients anyway.
Speaker 1 00:14:52 So it, it felt like quote unquote easy money. Um, and I saw people like doing like one-to-one online coaching, what you, it's not high ticket anymore, but you know, what you would think would be high ticket at the time, which is like, you know, a hundred fifty, a hundred seventy five credits. Um, so because I had a portfolio, I went in at one five a month, um, and sold like 90 day packages at that like month one I made eight grand. And like I I, I, you know, I'm a kind of similar background, right? Like I'd never seen eight grand in a bank account before, like never. So I was like, what the fuck is this thing? Like, it's not, and obviously I, I was, after my knee accident, I didn't work for a year and then obviously my teaching week came me afloat. Um, I, I have responsibilities at home as well.
Speaker 1 00:15:40 Like my dad stopped working, he had like bowel cancer. He had a lot of operations, which mean he couldn't do any manual work anymore. Um, so every responsibility at home as well. So like that was pretty much just keeping me afloat. So I had like a 15 grand like hole that I'd need to have for that year where I didn't work and I started stuff to pay and, you know, still the same responsibilities. Um, and within like three months I paid that offer. There only mine. There was one point when I was teaching, when I was looking at that debt thinking I am never ever, ever gonna be able to pay, you know, that student loan where you're like, that's not getting pay off. Like I'll pay the interest, but like, that's all gonna be a blackmail over me. I'm gonna be able to get a house, I'm gonna be able to this, be able to do that.
Speaker 1 00:16:20 And genuinely that was, that was a situation I was in. Um, so then within like three months of paying that office still me, my bank account, I was like, all right, there's, there's more to this. Like definitely. Um, so the first year we did, I forget now from my, yeah, um, it was over a hundred, under 150 in some way, you know, when you start doing it and you've got some people that pay into your bank and then you've got some people that, like I was using Worldpay and then I moved to Stripe halfway through the year. So some people are like, oh, fucking mate short made this first year. And I'm like, no, I've just fucking can't keep track of it all to be honest with you. I can tell you what I was on my tax bill, but I'd had to dig that out as well.
Speaker 1 00:16:59 Cause that was that one bill, um, which was absolutely correct, by the way. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Every penny, um, down to the penny. Um, but yeah, so like I, I couldn't, I couldn't honestly give you a number, but it was over a hundred, which was like, that was my dad's best every year before materials. Like, so that was like, you had to pay materials out that and then pay labor outta that. So like, that was his best every year. And that's always what I'd like had in my head as like, success, dunno why I think he's just, cuz he said it to me at a young age and I was like, oh my God, that's a massive amount of money. But like, that had always been like a, a point in my head where I was like, a hundred grand a year. Well, you know, by the time we were older, like we, we didn't have a lot when we were kids and stuff like that, but by the time we were like, you know, 13, 14, like we bought a house.
Speaker 1 00:17:46 My dad had like then built onto it cause he had the skills too. So like, we had a nice house, mom and dad both had a car. Um, you know, we had a holiday every year, which like to me was like the definition of success. Like, you don't look at like Ferrari's and Lambos and stuff like that because you're just a shoot. You, you don't think they're really real. Like, to be honest with you, like I'd never seen one in person until I moved there. Well, I've probably seen them with Rod and stuff like that, but like, you don't see that stuff. I really like, to me the definition of success was like, you have a car, the other house, you go on holiday every year and you're not in debt. Yeah. But I, to me that would be it. It wasn't like design clothes and shit.
Speaker 1 00:18:23 Like they, they were the things that really saw, and I'm thinking like, oh my, I just did that year one. Like then bearing in mind at the same time, like I was living in my mom's, so I was getting army cooking, done, army cleaning, me washing, like, I, I obviously I, I paid them rent, but I always paid them anyway whether I live there or not. Um, just because of obviously the situation. So like I was like, I'd built up a fucking load of money. Like I had loaded a cash. Cause I remember speaking about and you were like, do you have a nicer, what's an nicer? And you were like, you put money away. And I'm like, put money away where <laugh> like, you've never done anything before. Um, so yeah, the year was a bit of a wild ride. I think obviously we started working together like halfway through it. It was after that initial, that initial bump and then I was like, how do I stop this going backwards and I have no idea what I'm doing from this point onwards. Like, um, it was like pure hustle mode and I was like full with clients. Um, and then we kind of, you know, we were together. I think we grew it into a, a quite a successful team. Um,
Speaker 0 00:19:26 Yeah, definitely
Speaker 1 00:19:28 Very well, again, like the num the numbers really escape me because I've always been like, I've always done bits. So like, we've always, right, we'll do this and then we'll do this and then we'll do this and the numbers add up. But they are going different fucking payment servers and shit like that. And it's, it's actually pretty difficult to like, stress me down to the penny what we earn on like specific gears. Like I wouldn't really know. Yeah. What like, that's just the way it is.
Speaker 0 00:19:52 So two things that you mentioned there that I'd love to unpack. First one is maybe a bit of advice. So what do you think it's gonna take, let's say me walking up on the gym floor, uh, doing well with clients and I see you do that in year one online. How do I do that in year one? Online?
Speaker 1 00:20:11 You just gotta graph it. Like I, I think you've personally gotta graph it. So one thing I had, which was I think two things that we had, which was acc accidentally on purpose, I had a good portfolio of a very specific kind of client that wanted a specific kind of result. So like my niche was almost done for me. Like I had like 30, like people with quite decent careers that had families, you know, the typical busy professional shit. But that's what I had. Yeah. Because that's who was going to those gyms and paying that money. So I almost had a done for you niche, like right there in a proven track record. And because I've worked with them for like two, three years previously, I knew all of the problems, I knew all of the issues. And I think obviously my teaching background really helped in that as well, because you learn to identify problems really quickly.
Speaker 1 00:21:04 Like, like this is the issue. This is what we need to do to solve it. This is how we check that the issue has been solved. It's very like methodical and questioning. So you learn a lot, you know, you've gotta work with kids from all different backgrounds. So you've gotta quickly identify like, what are the things that they're struggling with and how do you help 'em fix it? So I think we had that, like I had a good understanding of the audience and like, and identify the key things that they needed. Um, and we got into coaching at the same time as software for coaching was really picking up. And we were a really an early adopter of software. Like I remember remember going holidays to Turkey and Pain Lewis to put everyone on the software. Um, and I put my feet up for a week, which was very entrepreneurial position that I just outta laziness to be honest.
Speaker 1 00:21:46 I had the cash and I didn't have the willpower. Um, so we, we got onto software really, really early, which then just put us a bit of a step ahead and we learned the software and we used it really well for our clients and we turned it into our package that, you know, at the time it was Google Sheets in a weekly email, which we just blew out of the water completely. Like we were, you know, giving people feedback every day. We were checking people's, you know, at the time it was like, you know, you could check my fitness pile off them every day. We were messaging them every day. So by the time we got to the check-in, people like, oh, my check-ins are like 50 minutes longer was like, mine weren't, mine were like five minutes because I'd spoke to him every single day up until that point about what else did we need to speak about.
Speaker 1 00:22:29 I already knew everything that was happening. So then it was just adjustments, updates and moving 'em along the timeline of like where they were gonna get to. So I think those two things for us, like massively gave us a leg up. So we had a better, we had a better product and we really knew our audience really well, which, which helps us kind of really narrow it. And then to be honest with you, I just like grafted my back out. Like, and this is where like I'll always back. I know a lot of people have like a bit of, I know it's becoming now a thing now everyone's like, have more conversations. Like you have to, but you remember like six months ago, everyone was like, don't DM people. Don't slide into people dms. It's sleazy. It's, I've been doing that since day one. Not in a weird way, but I would hammer my inbox day one.
Speaker 1 00:23:10 I would make sure that I knew everyone that followed me. I'd make sure everyone knew what I did. I'd make sure if I could help them, I would like, I was always giving them like workouts and, you know, little PDFs and stuff like that. And, and we hustled it to be honest, like I've, you know, I've done sales calls everywhere. I've done sales calls on holiday, I've done sales calls in airports, I've done sales calls, whatever. Like I'd, I'd make time for it because I knew how important it was to get us steps ahead of everyone else. And then once we had the steps ahead of everyone else and we had the finance more than everyone else, I'd just use it to put distance between us. Um, and and that's really what happened. I outworked everyone and then I outspent everyone really in the, in those kind of two steps.
Speaker 0 00:23:55 Love that. It was, now I've got another thing I wanted to mention to you. So before I do move on, based on what you've just said, um, a few moments ago you mentioned that kind of fear of losing everything mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that's why we kind of, we started working together and you, you were worried that know what if, what if this goes away? And we spoke about that later on as well. So even when you were, I don't want to say too much for doing multiple five figure months. Mm-hmm. Um, I think I remember you saying to me then like, when does that feeling that is going to go like next month it's gonna be gone go away. And I was like, I don't think it ever really does. And that, that scarcity for me, you know, it isn't a it doesn't hang over me, but it can be a driver, like two things. How do you feel about that and and is that something you still think about today and, and use, you know, as a way to drive?
Speaker 1 00:24:48 Um, yes and no. So I don't worry about myself anymore. I worry about my team. I worry about making sure that we've got, so, like for now, the way it shifted, I know I've got a skill set to where that even if I had no business and I had nothing, tomorrow I could walk into a business that was struggling and I could jump on the, and I could jump on sales and I could make that business money and I could say, listen, don't fucking pay me, but give me 20% of every extra bit of revenue that I create yet. And I know full well that I will never earn less than 10 grand a month for the rest of my life because I've built a particular skillset set that I know can make money in anywhere. And you're never gonna replace sales in a business ever.
Speaker 1 00:25:32 And I know I can do that. Um, for me the difference is my team. So like my team have families, my team have mortgages, my team have aspirations for themselves. And as a business owner, I, you know, I like to think that I don't like talking about other people, so I'm just gonna, I think we have an outstanding team, an industry, uh, industry leading team that I don't know about everything else. I, there might be some, you know, it's not a comparison thing. I truly believe that my team is phenomenal. I need to make sure that the, the umbrella that I have for my business is always above what their highest aspirations are. And because they're really talented, a lot of them do have really high aspirations. So like, my push now is I need to make sure that I can create a ceiling high enough to where my guys never touch it.
Speaker 1 00:26:21 And I have to make sure that I have a, I have a floor that's high enough to where my team never struggle. And now that's kind of <laugh> that, that just replaces it. So like, the fear of myself is, I suppose it's similar when you've got kids, right? That you just care. They're not like my children to be fair. Like, it's not the comparison I'm making, but I would imagine that's something that I have no experience in from chatting shit, really. But like it becomes less about you and more about them and it becomes more about the thing. There's a whole rather than about your particular health, like your particular situation. So like the fears have gone, it is just been replaced by a different kind of driver. But I think for me personally, I'm in a position now where I don't think I, I'd ever struggled. I mean, to be honest with you, like I'm, I'm, I'm pretty good with saving and investing money and stuff like that. And, you know, I'd be golden. I I could, I could easily just graph that a couple of grand a month and be fine.
Speaker 0 00:27:15 Yeah. And, and I think a, a big takeaway is that that kind of small amount of fear is no bad thing, right? From a
Speaker 1 00:27:22 No, not at all. I think it driver
Speaker 0 00:27:24 Must
Speaker 1 00:27:25 Be there. I think that's why a lot of coaches stall because two things happen. They either don't get a team, so then they keep graphing, they keep graphing, they keep graphing, the tax bill goes up and up and up and up and up and they start thinking, you know, and without a team, there's a limit to how far you can scale. Like you can only get so far before the work gets crushing. And then they get to the point of, do I even fucking want this anymore? Like, is this really worth it? Am I growing for the fucking sake of it so I can say I make X amount of money or so I can beat y person's revenue when in reality it's not really making them happy. Like, whereas when you start, and then the other thing they do is when they grow a team, they grow a team full of agency workers or, or VAs or fiber workers to get it cheap as fuck.
Speaker 1 00:28:13 And then they don't really care about the team to then it's still, they still hit that same ceiling of, well, what's the point in this anymore? Do I really need anymore? Am I just working myself into the ground for, you know, a pat on the back and a trophy and kind of kudos from my peers. Am I doing this for a real reason? And becau because I've got a team that I truly care about and want to succeed and I want my clients to succeed. That's why I've got the team that I have that gives you that same driver and motivation that you did for yourself and it continues it moving forward. And like, my goal now is to leave the business in a position where that the staff that we're hiring at young, like Reese is 24, like, you know, eight more years than me, right. And the people that we're gonna be hiring are gonna be continuously younger and younger and I need to make sure that this business stays, this business can't die with me when I've had enough. It has to be able to stay and provide for the guys that we've given a career to now. Otherwise it's, it's a bit fucking pointless.
Speaker 0 00:29:12 Yeah. I love that. Um, rolling back again. We, me, you mentioned dms a moment ago about how you did that from day one. Um, and I know as you mentioned, that's something that a lot of people do still struggle with, even though it it has changed
Speaker 1 00:29:26 Slightly. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:29:28 Um, how, so I think there's, there's a couple of questions or maybe a statement for me and then a question. So I feel like the people who do it best, like, like you do, don't see it as it is just never entered your mind. It's a sleazy thing to do. You're just naturally speaking to people mm-hmm. <affirmative>, networking, providing value, whereas the people who struggle with it are so scared of rejection, offending someone, get a negative comment back Yeah. That they just don't do it. How would you help someone either reframe it or what would you tell someone who is afraid of DMing and doing cold outreach or any kind of outbound?
Speaker 1 00:30:06 Yeah, so it's difficult, isn't it? Because the, I think the industry as a whole have, have probably done this a disservice where if you maybe roll a clock about like six, 12 months ago, people were taking real issue with it. And like people that people respected were taking real issue with it. Um, which is obviously then what the perception of it. Like if people keep making jokes about sleazy dms and sleazy, you know, sleazy sales and this, they wonder why then coaches struggle to, to do the work and struggle to get over that hump. And I think as an industry, we've almost created a problem that now we need to solve as a collective because we've put that in people's heads. I don't think people naturally start with the process of, I don't think I should talk to people because a lot of people go in gyms and the first thing they're told is make sure you know every single member.
Speaker 1 00:30:49 Make sure every single member knows who you are. Make sure you know who their family are. Make sure you know what job they do. This is no different. What happened was, at one point people got away with playing the algorithm. So people got away with posting and putting up stories and reach was that good that they got away without doing it. And then they thought that they, they could do it without doing it. And they, and then the, they moved away from the thought process of, well I don't want, you know, I don't have to talk to people, so why would I, but she's fair. But now the platform's reaches starting to come back again a little bit and things have got more difficult and talking to people and connecting with people and, and outreaching people is algorithm proof. If you've got a name and an email num, uh, name and an email address and a phone number, it's the same skillset.
Speaker 1 00:31:37 If you've got a person in front of you in the gym. If you've got a thousand followers on TikTok, if you've got a thousand followers on LinkedIn, the platform is irrelevant. The skillset is the same. And that for me is like the big thing that people need to be aware of, that it is a skillset that you need to practice. And you know, when I first went in the gym and I had to talk to people like that, I didn't know it. You know, so when you first start going out in a nightclub, like get pissed, get pissed, <laugh> get pissed the first time you do it, sit down on a Friday night, I have a couple of beers, get some Dutch courage and go after it. Cause that's how I started when I was 18 and it's done me all right. Um, <laugh> well I think so, but everyone
Speaker 0 00:32:17 Was that, was that advice for going out or advice for you when your first outreach?
Speaker 1 00:32:20 Oh, it's the same. Well, it's not the same. The confidence element is, you know, when you, you know, when you go to that school disco and the girls are sort on one side and all the boys are still on the other side. It's like all the coaches, he's
Speaker 0 00:32:30 Gonna be the first one
Speaker 1 00:32:30 Side and all the clients are stood on the other side. So all coaches engage with each other's content and speak to each other because they don't create this barrier. Coaches don't speak to coaches and coaches go, well fuck is this dickhead messaging me. They just speak to people. They've created this mental barrier for themselves, which is almost like the, you know, the school disco kind of thing. Like, and then you get cocky twats like me that go and do it. And it was like, fucking dickhead. Like it's, I think it's a mental shift that people need to make. And I don't think you can make the mental shift without just doing it. I think it's a, it is a practice and it's a comfort and it's a skill and I think people need to be aware of that. It's a skill and it's not a tactic.
Speaker 1 00:33:11 So therefore we cannot give you a tactic that will make it work. You have to be good at it. You have to be good at the skill. And we give you frameworks and help and sentence structures and cues and thought processes, but all of that needs to be, you know, assimilated by the coach into a conversation. And, and we focus so heavily on that where other people don't. But that's just because that's the way that I built my businesses and, and that's what I believe in. And it's meant that no matter what's happened with algorithms, with, with, you know, shifts and things, we've only ever had one negative month in three years.
Speaker 1 00:33:50 No. You know, covid, all of it. We've, we've only had one negative month and it was actually February of this year, and it's just because we signed so many people up in January, we didn't have no one left in February. Um, to be honest, that was a bit of a kick in the bollocks to be honest. I thought everything that's, you know, when you said, oh, I don't care about things falling apart anymore that month, I thought things were falling apart. Um, but yeah, it's just, I I think it's, it's, it's a mental shift and if you go into it thinking about it negatively, you are going to do it negatively and it's gonna come across negatively in the same ways as if you go, if you go and talk to someone in the street and you expect them to be a napier, every single inflection in their voice and type of the conversation, you are gonna run it. And you have, you think's ridiculed think's I'm dickhead, thinks I'm dickhead, and then you're not gonna do it. It's gonna, it is gonna put you off it. And I'm not big into like the mental, like affirmation kind of shit. But like, I think if you are struggling with it, it's probably a, a chink in your armor that you need to solve.
Speaker 0 00:34:46 Yeah. What, um, maybe two or three bits of advice would you give to someone who's maybe listen to this and thinking, okay, I'm gonna do it. Uh, two or three bits of advice for acquiring that skill or key elements
Speaker 1 00:35:00 Going with a drink would be 0.1. Like, again the analogy. Go in with something to give them. Like think of a resource that will really help your audience. Th this is what we do with people that are really like, oh my god, these people are gonna think I'm a tw these people are gonna think I'm salesy. We say, right, well make something, make a peace offering. Okay, give them some value and they're gonna get something from you. They're gonna f people are reciprocal, right? So like, if you go in and you do something nice to someone and give them something helpful, they're gonna be nice to you back. Um, number two is, except that some people are dickheads. Um, so cut conversations, we have like three things. Do they respond? Are they warm to respond? Do, do they actually engage the conversation If we're getting one word answers, we ask one word questions and then see if we can tease it out a little bit more.
Speaker 1 00:35:47 If people are shutting the door in our face every second, we don't carry on, but hey, great. Sound like you're really busy, don't wanna bother you, we need any help, let us now and we'll exit. Yeah. Um, and also the third thing is I remember, you know, you, you are gonna get some shitty your comments, people are gonna be touched, but like some people are having really terrible times <laugh> and it's easy to take it out and strange on the internet to like, again, just try and not worry about it as much. Um, but I think those three times when you can basically get over the worst case scenario, if you can get over the worst case scenario, everything else is an upside. They're like, except that somebody's gonna call you a twat, except that people are gonna be really short and blunt with you and think you're just trying to sell 'em something. Um, go post some stuff on TikTok for a couple of weeks and then come back and if you post on six up for a couple of weeks, you'll get some very colorful comments and that'll probably do the worst. I'll run an ad for seven days, run an ad for seven days, take the worst of it on the chin, and then come back and then there's nothing else that can really happen.
Speaker 1 00:36:50 We did have a client once where we message to go on someone's boyfriend messaged them. Um, that was a very isolating incident. Again, just have an answer for that. That, and again, that was the worst, that's the worst that that's ever happened.
Speaker 0 00:37:02 And it's still just a message. It's just some words in Instagram.
Speaker 0 00:37:05 Cool. <laugh>. Yeah. Um, cool. I love that. So we spoke a lot about, you know, advice that, you know, you are, you are giving to other trainers and coaches and, and the stuff that you and your team do. What we haven't actually introduced what it is you are up to today. So as in, you know, what, what you are running and what the business is. So if you wanna just give a a few sentences about what collective coaching is and, and what you offer size of the team and and where the business is at today.
Speaker 1 00:37:36 Yeah, so, um, so we obviously I run collective coaching. Um, we have two main programs for coaches. We have Kickstart, which is kind of zero to 5K recurring. So if you, if you nail, like if you recurring Rev gets it to 5K and you haven't there for a couple of months, like we say that you're done, you need to move on. Um, and then our CEO program is from 5K recurring upwards to, yeah, some people are doing 50, 60 k a month now obviously it's like a pyramid, right? Like we have less people making loads of money and then more people making less. Um, but that's kind of where that starts and where that finishes. Um, so one-to-one coaching program, we focus specifically on people building singularly online businesses. Um, and we work with people, um, that are building one-to-one coaching businesses. Um, so it's high ticket again, high ticket is, what do you call, high ticket.
Speaker 1 00:38:31 Um, but it's, we say we say premium because it causes less people to get the backup <laugh>. Really, that's the only reason. Um, but it's, yeah, it's, it's kind of for online coaching, it's high ticket. It's probably still less than personal training, but it's that one-to-one high-touch, high service, um, online coaching. Um, and we do that with direct marketing techniques, really like content conversations, sales calls and everything is built around that, even at the top end. Um, it's still built around those same pillars of posting, engaging content, creating conversations at scale, um, and then turning those into calls and making sales and then delivering a coaching program. We assume that most people are not to coach when they come in. So it is more of a business program than it is like a, a coaching program. Um, we have a team of 15 now, um, that's including backend and front end. Um, so at the moment we have five one to one coaches and then we have five executive coaches who oversee content operations, sales, lead generation, program design, sales and clients. Um, and that's kind of the, a very like short a brief variation of where it runs. Um, we've got 200 clients we started last year. So it's fairly hectic growth. Um,
Speaker 0 00:39:55 Amazing growth.
Speaker 1 00:39:56 Yeah, I mean, so even, I dunno whether I want to kind of talk about numbers cause everyone gets some fucking nickers in a twist site, but we, we will book 150 calls this month for our service.
Speaker 0 00:40:08 Love that. And you know, if, if any of you are wondering what kind of results Steve's um, program gets for their clients, you can check out his Instagram. There's uh, some amazing results on there. And, um, what I wanted to talk to you about is a lot of the results, a lot of the, what you show in terms of results are numbers, right? Financial numbers mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's something that a lot of people, I don't know if it's a British thing, don't like, um, but I think it's a British compounded with the fitness industry thing of Oh yeah, fitness in industry don't like it either. So, um, I think we could have a good chat about this because I am of the opinion that there's absolutely nothing wrong with being financially motivated because being financially motivated probably leads to you being a better coach and getting people better results because that's what's gonna improve finances, right? It's like, I don't even fuck what the motivator is as long as you know, you're do no harmony, you're helping people. Um, however, I don't really post much about revenue, my numbers other people's, um, you do. So what are your thoughts around being financially motivated, sharing those numbers, not being ashamed of sharing those numbers and, and how they're received by people in the industry?
Speaker 1 00:41:21 Yeah, a lot of questions
Speaker 0 00:41:22 There. So,
Speaker 1 00:41:24 So I come from a background where it is normal to talk about how much money you're making, all right. Um, I don't want to like say that I like fucking grew up in the ends and stuff like that. I've, I've, I've been involved in some stuff that I shouldn't have been, but, you know, my mom and dad actually brought me up like really well. However, like where I went to school and where I went to college, I went to college in middle 11 June, um, and I went to school in the middle of Austin lately. Um, so a lot of my friends that I grew up with, a lot of people that I know it, it wasn't, it is normal to talk about how much money you make. Everyone's older brother has a fucking Mercedes, nice watches, nice clothes, obviously. Then as you get a bit older, you realize what they're actually doing to get that money.
Speaker 1 00:42:05 Not all, not a lot of them are businessmen or some of them, but tail washing machines, uh, have some bed shock. But so like, it is normal. It, it is normal. I grew from it's normal to wanna have nice trainers, wanna have nice clothes, wanna have a nice watch. And maybe that's because we didn't grow up with it. So it's more of an aspirational thing. You know, we didn't grow up in an area where people had Rolexs, someone had a Rolex probably got robbed or you know, you assumed that it fell off the back of a truck or it was snide. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's actually normal where I'm from. Like for people to say, yeah, I made bags this week, I did this, I sold this for this making this much, it is normal for me. Like I, I got into a lot of stuff in my twenties because I thought that was the only way I could make money because, you know, I'd seen my dad graft his back out for nearly, well not 30 years, but he'd grafted his back out for, for 30 years.
Speaker 1 00:43:04 I obviously wasn't 30 at the time, but, so he, like, you know, most of my early, early childhood, he worked away in London. Like Monday to Friday he'd leave Monday morning, he'd come back Friday night, uh, he'd stay in like, you know, like the, the rooms above pubs, like that kind of stuff. So like I, you know, he had to graph his back out and his best year was a hundred grand before tax. And I, I knew Lance that were making like two, three grand a week. Like, and I was like, I was in a situation where my family needed money, I needed money, the teacher might gotta cut it. Um, and without saying too much, cuz I can, I'm sure there's a way I could still get in trouble for it. Um, but yeah, so I, I made some choices that I shouldn't have done, um, because that was the only way I thought I could make money.
Speaker 1 00:43:47 I make money quickly. I make money without, you know, spending 16 years climbing up a ladder. Um, and then sort of when online business like really took off for me, I was like, I wish I'd have known about that. You could do something like this way earlier in life and like when I was teaching, I'd get kids that were like, I'm, I'm, what are you gonna do when you grow up? Wanna be a drug dealer? Straight up you think they were joking, but really they weren't like they were saying it to me as a joke. Like they were saying it to me to get a laugh. But if that's the first answer out of a kid's mouth because they know it makes money, like there's a problem there. And for me it's about changing the narrative of like how you can make money. So like people are very, very quick to like point at people, you know, people that do drop shipping, people that do four x people that do, um, I, I forgot all the different ones.
Speaker 1 00:44:41 Um, online coaching we are looked at as a scammy industry, like business coaches is looked at by traditional business owners as absolute fucking sharks that feed off people's like insecurities. And at both ends of spectrum in every business there is like, we just need to fly the flag to the top end of it. It's, it's, it's one of those things that ev every industry's gonna have a top and bottom. Um, but for me it was never about hiding it. And I think if the people at hide it, it, it becomes a narrative of you have to act this way. You have to be this kind of person to take this kind of money in this industry. And then I think it, it leads down the wrong narrative. And I think as, as people that are supposedly supposed to be showing the right way and showing the right way to do it, we have to understand that a lot of people are financially motivated and we will do a better job for the business and do a better job for society by showing people there is a way to earn a ridiculous amount of money by doing things the right way and and, and following the right paths.
Speaker 1 00:45:41 So I think for me, you know, if I wouldn't have gone down that road, if I knew there was another option, it wasn't something I took lightly it, you know, that kind of stuff carries a very heavy toll on it. One of them being in the ground and the other one being locked up. It's, I wouldn't have gone down that route if I knew there was another way or I thought there was another way that I could actually achieve not by being an investment banker or all of this stuff that you had to go to like Oxford and Cambridge or you had to have the right connections. Cause I didn't have any, your dad did pavements and knew I was a teaching assistant. So I think that's one of the things I think a lot of other people maybe came from a very different upbringing and therefore have a very different view of money where people are like, oh, I don't, you know, I'm not gonna put the accent on cause that's <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:46:24 I heard enough of it.
Speaker 1 00:46:25 Yeah, I know. Um, but you know, I, oh, I don't discuss how much money we make or, you know, keeping up with the Jonesy style stuff. I wasn't keeping up with the jonesy. Like a lot of people was keeping alive and like keeping food on people's plates and keeping coats on people's backs and things like that. Like we were never luckily in that position, but a group of a lot of people that were, a lot of people that were, you know, brothers clothes holes in it falling apart u using a summer jacket in the winter and freezing the backs out cuz winter coats are fucking expensive. Like, you know, when you, when you, when people are that desperate and when people are in those positions or when people just want to provide for the families, like I wanted to make sure that mum and dad, my dad didn't have to go back to work. My dad was gonna go back to work as the delivery driver with a cost in me bag at one point. And that to me, I was like, no, that's not happening at all. And when you put in those situations, if you don't know what the ways you're doing it, then we wonder why we've got a problem with things like that in society. That's why.
Speaker 0 00:47:25 Yeah, I love that. I love that frame. It's is almost a duty of making people aware, like, hey, this, this is the, these are the possibilities, these are opportunities. You don't have to, whether it's crime or whether it's just doing a different job or taking your business down a different path that you don't enjoy. Here's another option and here are the possibilities. And I definitely do think there's something there in the back graphs that you and I have fairly similar upbringings. Um, and now that you've said that I, I think that is an I does impact things. Um, when you think about the other people who maybe, uh, are offended by
Speaker 1 00:48:02 And that's what, you know, what, like I used, so like I've changed a lot, maybe in the last kind of six to eight months of like the way I act with other people. My opinions haven't changed at all, but the way, the way I, it's not their fault. And like, you know what, like good for them, like good for them that they don't know like what it's actually like. Like I'm glad, I'm glad that everyone's had to make those choices. I'm glad that, you know, people don't feel the need to show that because they're not aware of what goes on. Like ignorance is bliss for a lot of people and like if that's the way that they are, it's because they've never dealt with those situations and it's probably a good thing for them. So I try and not crucify people for it. I don't use my background as a martyrdom.
Speaker 1 00:48:44 I just think it's actually give me a much more, you know, I think really resonates more with more PTs because to be honest with you, more PTs come from my background than come from, you know, an affluent background for the most part, you know, is you take demographic industry, a lot of PTs get into it because that's what they love. It's the only place that they've ever felt like they've, they've got any kind of thing about them. It's, it's something that you learn later in life. So they're not punished for the choices that they made as kids. Like if you want to be a banker, you are not on track to be a banker at the age of 14. You are not being a banker. Like if you wanna be a doctor, if you fuck up your GCSEs, cuz you're a little fucking mystery and you are not getting to be a doctor.
Speaker 1 00:49:24 If you wanna be a scientist, if you wanna be a lawyer, you fuck up between the ages of 11 and 16, you are done, you are finished. I dropped one grade in my as level math because I passed my maths GC s e early and because I was a kid in a school where if you didn't have something to do, you generally got up to fucking Mansons. We did four call for the last year of maths because we got a supply teacher cuz we'd already passed. And I did jack shit and I got a C in my first ASL maths and it dropped me out of both of my two first options to university. And that's, that's how cutthroat is in education at that level. Now, personal training and, and being a business owner online has none of that. And I've got lots that I went to school with that were way, way less clever than me.
Speaker 1 00:50:11 Like it's like, you know, on the GCSE spectrum, like not mentally cause I don't know, right? One of them runs super passion for, for me that you and Steve probably know, um, from based in Cheshire, worked with cars and all of those ones and, and has made a massive offer himself. Um, I was teaching at the same school that h the rapper. So he went to my school. Wow. And I, I went back taught on my school and he was year nine, um, when I was teaching there. And then same thing like obviously the success rate of himself and regardless of being the talented musician, he's made some very, very clever business choices that have made him probably one of the foremost like people like that. Um, and again, he couldn't have <inaudible> like I know other people like from other around the same age that were rappers that are now Forest Bank.
Speaker 1 00:51:04 So, you know, it's, it's about choices. But I think for me, you know, being a personal trainer and having an online business is something that you can get into later on and you're not punished for your earlier choices. So I think that naturally it lends itself more to people that maybe, you know, didn't, maybe not even excel in school. I'm not saying there's an intelligence thing at all, but maybe just didn't make the right choices, didn't take the right steps, didn't fulfill the potential that they maybe had when they were younger because of certain things. And you know, they now later in life realized that they do have more potential to them and they can do more things for themselves. Um, and I think it just, it, the industry as a whole I think is more of those people that, you know, I went to Oxford and became bio or I went to Oxford and yeah, I'm pulling universities out my, but like, do you know what I mean? Came from like a industry background. All PTs calling most people got because it was one thing that they could get good at and they enjoyed it and they've taken it seriously and, and this is the platform that they've now got.
Speaker 0 00:52:07 Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Cool. Okay, so I'm conscious of time, I've got a few more questions. Um, what advice would you give to an online coach or PT or you, Jim owner who's doing really well, whether that's 20, 30, 40, 50 k a month, revenue wise, whatever, um, and they've got ambitions for six bigger months. Um, let's stick to an online coach. Maybe they wanna go from 2030 k a month to a hundred k a month. What's your maybe two or three bits of advice or prudence that they're gonna have to go through?
Speaker 1 00:52:42 Okay, so you can do this two ways. You can do it. Low ticket and high ticket. I'm gonna talk about high ticket because that's the way that I know and that's the way that I understand. I've never scaled a low ticket business to seven figures, so I can't comment on that. I I know people who've done it, it's not my thing. Okay, so for high ticket, the first thing you need to ensure is that you are actually high ticket. The worst thing I think you can do is get caught in the middle ground of both. Because as you get to businesses that size, you start to deal with a lot of margin and, and your margin getting eaten. But you've got that first of all. Then you've got commission on sales, which by that kind of month you'll probably need a loser. They're gonna want 10%.
Speaker 1 00:53:25 You probably need to allocate somewhere between two and 5% to client gifting as in like, you know, kick back to your client's rewards, things like that. Um, you've probably got about 1% of that needs to go to the person generating the leads like manually. So you, you'll be generator or you set up and then you've, you've got <laugh>, you've got cost of acquisition, which could be anything from fucking 10% 50 if you're organic it's gonna be low. Eventually you'll have to go pay at some in some way, shape or fall. Even if it's bringing bottom end and nurturing 'em up. Like essential wise, the cost of that, the cost is time and less, more time. And you leaving rate are actually nurturing them. So there's an associated costs. Um, and if you margins aren't like 50%, you know, 40, 50% max, you, you're gonna get to that point that I spoke about earlier.
Speaker 1 00:54:14 Like what's the point You be continually scaling the business. I forgot that you've gotta pay someone else to coach the clients as well on top of that. So like, this is why when I see coaches, right, like make wrong decisions with a price point and B contracts, they pay people way too much to get started because it's like, oh the money's mine now I'm gonna give some of the money to you. And they're not factoring in these costs that are just about to hit the business in the mouth. It's like I've seen 60 40 splits for coaches and I'm thinking if you give that coach 40% of this client, you are gonna make nothing. Like by the time you end up having all this infrastructure, you're gonna make nothing. And then do you really wanna go back and renegotiate with a coach that's been getting 40% and give them more like 10?
Speaker 1 00:54:56 No. So if the coach wants to be paid X and you want a coach that requires to be paid x, your price point is going to have to be y in order to figure that out. And getting that right and getting those margins right to scale is one of the reasons why a coach just end up running a ground because they run out of margin and think what's the fucking point? Or they go, I don't have enough money to, to pay a closer. Right? So you are gonna do 50 cents costs a week. Cool, alright, well done. You're not gonna do that. I don't have enough money to pay a lead generator. You know, and all of these things come into play. I don't have enough money to pay my vt. That's the worst one. That's the problem that we're not talking about cause we're talking about getting seven figures, but like yeah, my tax bill's getting on top of me, you don't have enough margin and it comes down to margin. Um, because then you can't access the things that you need. There's an answer for everything at this level. If you, if your organic starts running dry, cool you come, if your paid starts getting really cost, you know, really cost, you run more organic, you must can and you pull 'em into a lower ticket and pull 'em up, you there is an answer for everything. It's pretty methodical to be honest with you. I'm not gonna say it's, it's easy, it's not, it's difficult but it's simple at these levels.
Speaker 1 00:56:05 <laugh>, the simpleness is destroyed by a few key problems and that's one of them. The second one in can fulfill. You can't run this if you're stuck in a film and I'm sorry. Like, and you actually can't coach effectively either because once you've got a legion team, once you've got a sales team and once you've got a content team, once you doing all this shit, you think you are going to give what your clients what they need you, you're having a laugh to. Like I look at my schedule and I'm like, where can I be the most impactful without just pat people on the back for the sake of it or without just showing my face for the sake of it. I don't wanna build a program based around me being there. If everyone needs me every second of the day, my business is gonna fail.
Speaker 1 00:56:47 What I need is to look at where can I come and deliver the most impacts and values to my clients while not having to do the day-to-day stuff that someone else could do best than me. Cuz they have more time and attention. And I think a lot of coaches' egos don't realize that a coach with absolutely no other responsibilities is a much better coach than them. Even if actually on paper they're a better coach, they're more experienced, they've got more client results. A client who's o a coach whose only job is to get client results and to run customer service and deliver an exceptional result for a client will do a much better job than a a brilliant coach that's 70% in. And that's just, that's just the truth from seeing it over and over again. But I think until you get there, it's, it's one of those things. And then the third one is like, pay what people are worth. You gotta pay the piper, you wanna make a hundred grand if you wanna make 200 grand, can't pay like you if you want big money coming in, you've gotta get used to at least semi big money going out. Like let's be honest, right? If you wanna, you were to bill say a 4 million pound a year business or 50% margins, you're gonna spend two mil.
Speaker 1 00:57:54 So you are gonna see, you know, 160 grand going outta your bank account every single month. You've gotta get used to it. And I think a lot of coaching staff, cuz you start telling it to real world things, well that's a house deposit. I'm like, cool. But people, people who run 4 million year businesses probably don't buy houses two or 200 of black coal. That's what you are looking at. Like yes, you can get that, but there's a cost of entry to all of this stuff and it's a lot of it's mental, the cost of entry is you taking that gamble and, and letting go of that fear and taking that next step. Um, I know you asked for three, but I think probably those two ones are the, are the main ones. Um, the third one is like probably pick a, pick a strategy and run with it.
Speaker 1 00:58:37 So we run content message call, everything we do props up that, that part we don't, and we did this in gt, which is one of the problems that I think we ended up being, I think we either should have gone fully grouped and then ascended the, the high ticket out of that and kept the high ticket actually as a is not something that we pushed. What we did was we pushed each one like flip flopped it. And I think what it did was it like, it just confused the audience a little bit. And because we made them both sound really fucking good on the front end bucketing people were like, well wow, I'm, I'm confused there. Like why is this 150 Quinn, this one's fucking two grand if this one's amazing And that one's amazing. Like, and then we end up selling features in it and its up like getting a bit of a hard sell.
Speaker 1 00:59:22 Um, and then what it did was we, we kept the price low of the group program because it wasn't our main offer and then we didn't have the margin in the group program to scale the group program. So it, it kind of all got muddled up. We got to a very good point with it, don't get me wrong, but like if I, if I wanted to do, you know, two or 3 million that fitness business, I'm about to rip the backend out of it and and rebuild it properly. And I think that for me is like, don't scrabble five different revenue streams. And I see, I see other coaches do it, I see other business coaches do it. Like the launch a new thing every week. Like all right, we're doing this now, we're running our fitness business, we've got our group going, we've got this, you know, we've got this program, we've got this program, we've got this program.
Speaker 1 01:00:02 And I'm like, I mean I don't see anyone above us doing that. So many people underneath. And I think, I think it's just a confusion thing. I think it's just a confusion thing. Um, to be honest, I think just got recording equipment for later. Um, I think, yeah, I think it's a confusion thing to be honest. I think they struggle to see the way forward in what they're currently doing and instead of asking for help when we get to it that certain level, I think people find it quite difficult to ask for help, which then becomes, I don't know how to solve this problem, so what I'm gonna do is I'm actually gonna try and go around it and use a different path when in reality the best way is to, to figure out how to solve the problem and get over it. And I think those are probably the three main issues that people have.
Speaker 1 01:00:48 Like they don't think of the margins in the product. Um, and I think they let their personal like feelings about business get in the way of like the maths. I don't, I don't wanna try. Like I used to be like that and I said it the other day, like, I've stopped making comments about other businesses above me because every time I fucking say something I get to that level and then I'm like, makes lots of sense now <laugh>. Oh. And I'm like, I'm, I'm like, I'm personally glad that person did fucking sit me down about this because if they'd explained it the way I've just figured it out, I would've looked like a fuck. So like now I don't say nothing because I don't, I don't give attention to people who are trying the same thing to me because I'm gonna give them the opportunity to just figure it out for themselves and, and get the opportunity that I got, which was not being roasted online.
Speaker 1 01:01:30 Um, and then the people above me, I stopped cause I'm like, I'll fucking probably figure it out when I get there. What the reason was. And pricing was one of them, things are, and and scaling out of the program was one of those things for me. But fucking that Dicker never does anything lazy cutters probably set every feet up, doesn't even bother the light, do any sales calls. And now I'm like, I can't fucking do 150 cars a month for you mad. And I'm like, oh I'm got, and so every time now I've just shut up because like every time I get a thought I'm like, probably figure that out. Um, so you, it's like the personal stuff you need to let go of that and like go with the numbers. Like is this feasible? Can you scout? You can't and you can't do it and you might as well sort it at source rather than dealing with it late on the line. Yeah, those are my, those are my 3, 4, 4 trying to get a seven figures. There's obviously loads of simpler ones earlier on in the day, but I'm assuming they've solved a lot of those issues to get to that point.
Speaker 0 01:02:21 Yeah, I love that. I think there's a, a lot of takeaways within those points. Okay. Are you up for some finishing questions before we go? Yes. What do the next few years look like for you as, as a, as a business owner and entrepreneur and the business itself?
Speaker 1 01:02:39 Our goal is to, well I think we're gonna do it this year, to be fair. I right. So I'll set long term goals and then they're always a bit stupid because I always do it way sooner. So now I've only really started doing short and medium term actual goals and then I just have like an idea of like where I want it to be. Um, I I think we'll probably be the, the biggest business program in the UK within the next three years. Um, I think the way that we network and and bring in experts is probably something that's gonna allow us to move with shifts in the initiative that are gonna happen over the next three years. Which I don't think other people are going to have the hunger to deal with personally. They're probably gonna be somebody that's hung than me that's gonna come and like force that issue, which is cool.
Speaker 1 01:03:29 But like I think the people that have already made it think when certain shifts happen, like probably the move from Instagram to TikTok is gonna be a bit of a shift that's gonna happen in the next three years. I think AI is gonna be a shift that's gonna happen in the next three years. And now we obviously spoke about that. We've done a lot of stuff on that as well. Um, I think the ability to adopt, to use that and implement that and move forward with it is gonna be a shift. And I think that we've got the appetite still at this point to that and to do it well. And I think some people that head of not have appetite to do it won't make the shift as well as I think it's really gonna be the catalyst I kind of being, being the top, which, um, I think long term I want us to be cemented as, as like a more of an institution rather than like a, a personal thing.
Speaker 1 01:04:17 Me because I have any attention of selling the business, but because I want it to be a system that is always on the cutting edge of what's working right now and teaches basic skills. Like one of the things that that I did with you is I learn basic business skills. We didn't really do tactics. We did tried and tested. It was more, it was more traditional marketing than it was this is what's working in the fitness industry right now. It was, this is what I've learned from x businesses and y mentors that are broader. And I think that that's really where I want us to be. I want us to be a skill-based. This is how you grow a business. I think we will get outside fitness eventually, but it's not in my plans right now. Um, at least within the collective coaching kind of brand. Um, but I think it will end up being an online business skills based thing rather than just specifically this is how you build a fitness business. Cause I think that's always gonna move with trends and I think core skills will always be there.
Speaker 0 01:05:18 I love that. I'm excited to see all that.
Speaker 1 01:05:20 Like I went off.
Speaker 0 01:05:23 No, that's good to hear. Um, what's something that you hate about the industry?
Speaker 1 01:05:29 I don't, I used to, I used to hate loads of stuff. Um, think that, that I don't hate anything in the industry. I really don't. I think everyone's trying to do the best for themselves and dealing with their wrong problems I think is as I've got further and fur and, and again I say this like I don't wanna mean like I'm, I'm more peer, everyone like feel like I've, others have got further and further ladder. I feel like a lot of people have a lot personal issues and, and now it all makes sense, like what people are dealing with and then how come across on social media. So like, I used to be, I used to be very like, oh, why is this guy dick and why is this guy like this? And, and then now I'm just like, listen, people are just people. Uh, people act the way that they've been brought up to and they act the way that their environments dictated to them.
Speaker 1 01:06:11 And a lot of them have have a, you know, a lot of holes I think. And I, I feel more sorry for them than anything. Like people that are constantly anxious and paranoid and stressed and angry and I'm <laugh> I'm more open, so to talk with them about it than anything because I'm quite lucky. I'm I'm sure you are the same, you know, and you're like, you've got a lovely family. Like, you know, you you, you're not focused on money. Like money isn't the, the, it doesn't make a difference to your lifestyle. The minute, like, and I, I'm the same like I'm very happy. Like I fucking, I wake up with my dog every day, like go for a walk. Like I've got senior tickets at United at my nephew. Like I have a business that I genuinely fucking turn up to every day and I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 01:06:55 I work on my days off. I never look at the clock. It's not a favorite thing to do, which is like weird. Like it is genuine. Like really my business is genuinely my favorite thing to do. Like it took it away from me. I'd have no purpose. Um, and I don't think a lot of people have that. I think a lot of people have holes maybe somewhere in that. And so I don't hate it. I, I, there's nothing I hate about the industry. I think I've just gotta continue and try and on this path that I'm on now, especially of like not taking shots and not pointing at people and not shooting people down but keep doing the right thing and keep pushing it forward and doing it the way that I think is right. Whether people agree with it or not. But I'm not gonna get caught up in that. I'm not gonna answer that. I'm not gonna, I'm just gonna keep doing it. And you know, the success we have will dictate whether I'm right or not regardless of people's opinions.
Speaker 0 01:07:44 I love that. What's the biggest mistake you see coaches making when they're trying to build business?
Speaker 1 01:07:52 Personal personal issues. Personal issues and chasing so many different rabbits. Pick one thing, believe in it back yourself. Do it. Shut out our distractions. A lot of cultures issues are unfortunately personal. We get, we have 23 year olds that come in that know no different and kick the fuck out of it because they're just like, cool, I get it, I wanna do it. This is the way I'm gone. It's actually the coaches that have been in the industry for longer that are the hardest clients to deal with because we have to deprogram like all the, unfortunately, and this is why I don't like taking shots because I know that the, they're a bit wound up and bitter because they see other people made success of it and they're trying and they've put the effort in and they've put the time in and they feel that they've not been rewarded for it.
Speaker 1 01:08:35 And it would be very frustrating. Um, and that's why we don't have contract. We, we have contracts for our ip, like and, and our i intellectual property and sharing and, and keeping, you know, the stuff that we've made within our program. I, I'll, I'll never send a letter to someone, the store about our contract. Like we just try and do the best we can for people. And that's, I think the mistake that a lot of coaches make is they just don't, they don't look introspectively themselves and think like, is this my opinions that's affecting the way I'm thinking about this? And I think, so personal responsibility I think would be the main thing. Like, are you doing the work? Are you doing the work effectively? Are you asking for the help that you need? And I think a lot of them, if you ask them those three questions, there's very few people that answer to those things yes.
Speaker 1 01:09:18 That don't end up doing well, but they convince themselves that the answer is yes even though it's no. And they, they blame other people. Um, and I think if, and again that's one of the reasons why, why I try and do what I do and the way I do it cuz it's trying to show people that yeah, you know, this person was making this amount of money, been in the industry for this long, then he managed to do this. Like it's not, it's not a death sentence, but I think that for me, like just the personal work I think is, is a big thing. We, it's the hardest thing for us to be honest with you. It's the hardest thing for us to deal with because I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a, I'm not a behavioralist. Like we, we do have a psychologist within the program and I was very fucking good one to, to help with these kind of things.
Speaker 1 01:09:58 But again, you can only help people who want to help who identify that yeah, I do have a problem with this actually and I want some help with it, otherwise just, I don't need to fuck psychologist. So your, and you're like, cool, alright. Yeah. But that's why we don't try and fight and we, we don't argue and we don't try and we don't let, let the door hit people. Like I've, I've, we've had a big, big push to this Christmas on like negative language within the company, like massive push. Like we don't hear it. Like we don't hear it anymore. Um, not that it was bad beforehand, but you know, like little things that like clicking like, oh yeah, this place fucking doesn't know about himself. Like he needs to word of himself, you know, maybe they just don't have it and they're not in the right, he's not got the right mindset for it.
Speaker 1 01:10:39 We try and remove that language and try and do as much as we can and be positive and try and help them. Um, even stuff like, you know, bad lead or, you know, that was a waste of time. We've eliminated as language within the company because we want people to see that everybody's got an opportunity. We just need to find the right thing and sometimes we can't, but then we take that on us like we didn't have the right systems or the right people in here to help that person with that particular problem. I, I hope that everyone has that light bulb moment sometime at some point. Um, we are not always gonna be the people that get that for them, but we need to at least give them a chance.
Speaker 0 01:11:11 Yeah, I love that. Um, and it's definitely something I've experienced and it's something that we worked on as well. Um, in terms of that, that negative talk. I, you know, the amount of coaches or business owners in the industry that you do hear almost slagging off their own clients leads, audience is just mental. Um, okay, let's finish on a positive note. What's something that you love about the industry?
Speaker 1 01:11:38 <laugh>. I, I fucking, I love the whole industry. Me like I do. Uh, it's given so many people opportunities to do something that they love, you can make a very, very good living in it now. Like it's, I think we're changing the narrative of the three and done kind of thing. You know, the, you know, the average lifespan of a personal trainer execs, it probably still isn't great, but I feel like there's gonna be more and more opportunities to be in the industry. So exciting because people are growing very fucking big companies, big companies that are able to give people opportunities where maybe self-employment isn't the right role for them. Um, and I think, you know, if we keep pushing the way that we're pushing it, keep building businesses the way that we are, there's, there's gonna be room for people to be sales, there's gonna be room for people to be lead generators within fitness businesses, room for content directors, coaches management.
Speaker 1 01:12:28 There's gonna be all this infrastructure we're so far behind normal bus, like what traditional business that there's all this scope and scaffold. Like we've got people coming through now. We just started working with like, uh, financial advisor and accountant for fitness business, online businesses. So like all these jobs are gonna be created around this hub. And I think it's a really exciting sign to be in it. It's gone beyond, you're either a self-employed person or trainer or you go back to your real job, there's gonna be real jobs, real contracts, pays you in pensions, all of this shit coming through. Um, and I'm just kind of excited to be in, be in this era of it where it is going to start doing that. Cause I think it's, it's really cool. Um, and I think that's one of the reasons why I, I've, I've really trained myself to have this positive mindset around the industry because the way that we act now is, is really gonna kind of shape the future of where it's gonna go.
Speaker 1 01:13:23 I think over the next 10 of 10 to 20 years. Obviously everyone talks about covid accelerating, but I think it's correct. Like the shift to online business now is not gonna go anywhere. But once people have seen it, seen what it can achieve and, and seen what can be done with remote teams and things like that, we're a bit behind America. America are probably there three or four years ago, like, um, but you know, like America sneezes and the rest of the world catches it a little bit later. Um, but I, I think it's really exciting and, and I I do genuinely love it and I think that, you know, there's a re from what people, you know, I think there's a really good community within, within the coaching industry. I think you reap from that what you sow. So like if you are bitter and you talk bad about the industry all the time, you're gonna create a culture of people that are bitter and and hate the industry. And, and then you're all gonna feel together. Like the industry is shit. If you, if you breed a culture that the industry something positive and that, you know, we'll be grateful, you know, everyone that kind of wants to be in it, I think you'll create people around you that are like that and you'll feel more positive about it.
Speaker 0 01:14:20 Yeah, I agree a hundred percent and I think it is an exciting time. I actually did an interview with a guy called Aaron McCulloch a couple of days ago. Yeah. Um, and he's, so he's a, the owner of a PT management company got PTs in 417 locations. Wow. They're pretty big. Um, and he's a data nerd and he's got all the data and the statistics for the industry. By the end of 2023, there'll be more PTs working in the industry than ever before. And that's despite the fact that the number of PTs shrunk by eight years in 2021 due to covid. So it shrunk by eight years in 2021 and then by then in 2023 it will have progressed 12 years in the space of two years in terms of number of PTs. So if there was a time to build infrastructure, create opportunities and build like really focus on the business that time is now because not that it'll ever be saturated, but there's gonna be a hell of a lot more competition in the next few years than there has been, than there is right now.
Speaker 1 01:15:22 And bigger people with greater minds are gonna see the opportunity in coming there and you know, really like we've seen it, it's not happened well. We've seen people that have come from massive success in other industries try and crack the fitness industry, do a very poor job of it with the businesses that have created cause they don't understand the industry. But there will be those unicorn people who manage to get it right and they will build huge, massive infrastructures that, that I think we're gonna start seeing in the next few years. Then the people who've done right now have probably missed the boat on like the industry. They've not taken the time to learn the industry as much. They try to plug and play what we're doing elsewhere. Somebody will just be like, hang on a minute. Like, oh, it fits and, and you know, things will explode from there, I think. Yeah.
Speaker 0 01:16:07 Yeah. I agree mate. Cool. Well it's been a pleasure speaking to you mate. If anybody wants to find you, where should they go?
Speaker 1 01:16:14 Um, it'll be at Steam McGrath on Instagram. Um, if you are ob you're listening to this and you're, you're a larger business owner that wants to work with us on that, you, you know, you just messaged us, right? Um, if you are newer into the industry, you've, you know, you've looked at this and think, right, maybe this is something that I want to have a crack at. Um, if you go to collective coaching.co I know that's really annoying. We come domain name's 10 K and I'm being tight, actually, they should really put me handy them in pocket, um, collective coaching.co. Um, we have a business builder course on there, um, which is 97 pounds. It's 97 pounds because we ring people to see how they're getting on with it and see if we can offer them any help. And we were sickeningly out people that had done downloaded it and we were ringing and trying to give them extra help and, and we hadn't even started.
Speaker 1 01:17:02 So we assumed that 97 couldn't mean that you start, that's the reason why that's there. I now I I I've done a lot of business programs. I think every, everything that you need to get started is in there. There's no barrier to entry to this anymore. Like if you've got a 97 quid, it will walk you through our way of doing things. So like building a, a high ticket offer, being able to, you know, post content, being able to create conversations and make sales and, and build a coaching program. And there's actually done four you coaching programs in there. So like, there's a nutrition tracker and check-ins and all that stuff. Um, and if you ain't got 97 qui YouTube, um, if you search steam graph, we've pretty much done everything that you need to get started as well, just slightly less hands-on. So you get that for three. So they're your options.
Speaker 0 01:17:49 Amazing. Pull the links in show notes, website and the YouTube video. Steve, it's been a pleasure, mate. Thanks very much.
Speaker 1 01:17:57 All good.
