Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Everybody <unk>. And today I am joined by Mike Harrison from Biceps and Banter. Thanks for joining me, Mike.
Speaker 1 00:00:08 It's an absolute pleasure. So look, first in first one, so, uh, honored flattered, really, but, uh, it was not
Speaker 0 00:00:15 Saying to Mike before we went live, this is the pilot episode, the cheap one, where we get in the affordable guests to, to test the concept and then decide whether we'll move forward.
Speaker 1 00:00:25 Stitch me up there. He stitched me up nowhere. He's, he's been begging me to come on <laugh>, Mike, I won't, I won't stop podcast unless you come on. Go on then I'll come on. I'll do your favor for an old mate. Thanks, man.
Speaker 0 00:00:35 Top friends four.
Speaker 1 00:00:36 That's it. You know, and then I'm not even charging him that much. I'll send you the invoice after this up. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:00:42 Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Couple of quid, couple of couple of errands. So, uh, we'll cover Mike's journey in career and talk about the, the business. He's, he's built biceps and pants, which is amazing business that he runs with his co-founder, Dan, in, in detail over the next 30 minutes, 60 minutes. Again, it's the first episode. I have no idea how long this will be for, for those watching who don't know who you are, Mike, who are you very briefly and what is biceps and banter?
Speaker 1 00:01:10 Yeah, so, um, Mike, I'm basically just, uh, basically a coach I work with, like I said, my business partner Dan, have been going for four and a half years or something like that, but been a coach for pretty much double that time. We've got a team of coaches, we've got four coaches, currently have a couple of little branches to the business, you know, predominantly obviously frat loss, nutrition training, type coaching. But in the last kind of year or so, myself and and Dan have, have gone down the route of coaching coaches a little bit more. We still coach at loss of nutritional training, but we've kind of got slightly mixed interests. So yeah, that's kind of me, I guess, in a business space in, in a nutshell.
Speaker 0 00:01:50 Yeah, so we're gonna cover quite a lot of what Mike's just mentioned. You know, hiring a team, the structure of the business a little bit as well. And, uh, running the business with a business partner, which is something that probably not many coaches do that would benefit them. So we'll talk about the pros and cons of that as well. So when did it all start from, from my understanding and my memory? You were in either the Army or the RF to be begin.
Speaker 1 00:02:16 It's in the rf
Speaker 0 00:02:17 Rf. What's that? Like, not quite the army or
Speaker 1 00:02:20 Not quite the army. It's for people who have got brains who want to, you know, defend the country. So no need to thank me for my service suck. It's, it's okay. It's all part of the job. Yeah, no, I, I joined, I joined the, a air force at, at 18. I didn't particularly want to, but just kind of bad career advice leaving school really.
Speaker 0 00:02:43 What, what else was that? What were the other options when leaving school?
Speaker 1 00:02:47 So, so I did okay at school, surprisingly enough and got good grades and so on and so forth, but I was always like a, a sporty kid, played football, rugby, the ran cross country basketball, cricket, just pretty much played everything and enjoyed it and wanted to go into something related to sport. And obviously like when you're 14, 15, 16, you don't really know what's out there. So the thing that I could think of was a, either a sport scientist or a physiotherapist. And, and that's pretty much what I could muster up. Yeah, I got my, got my grades and we were with the careers advisor and she basically moved me away from wanting to do anything sports related and moved me to do, to, to do a levels in line to, to, to go to uni to do medicine. So I did maths, chemistry, physics and biology a level.
Speaker 1 00:03:37 I got accepted to do dentistry at uni. I did all my work experience to be a dentist. And as I was going through sixth form, I was just like, I don't wanna be a dentist. Like I want to do something in sport. So I made a bit of a decision where I was like, right, I'm not gonna go to uni. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna join the Air Force, but I'm gonna go in as a, as a pti, a personal training instructor, do my degree through, through the Air Force, and then that way I can stay within sport. Okay. So same thing. And again, kind of like the similar thing happened. I, uh, went for the, for the Air Force, did all the interviews, did an m test, and then again, they kind of sold me in a different direction. Were like, okay, your aptitude test has come back, this, you've passed for all of these things.
Speaker 1 00:04:22 You're, you're sending yourself a little bit short going as a personal training instructor, going as an air aircraft engineer. And like at a time that was going through it, I would been about 17. And again, not really knowing what I wanted to do it, they sold it and it was like, there's, you get to do this, you get to see the world. You have all this camaraderie with people, it's amazing. It'll set you up for life. And I was like, yeah, you know what sounds great. So I ended up doing aircraft engineering, like never had any interest in aircraft, never even watched Toplin leave it or not. What have you watched it now? Still haven't <laugh> I've not watched it. Oh my God,
Speaker 0 00:05:00 Right. You to watch both of them.
Speaker 1 00:05:02 They couldn't believe it. So like you were, obviously when you are in like an institution like that, you've got people who are being almost like bred into it, that their dad was in it was in it. And it's like, it's a bit of a, a dinosaur institution really. And people absolutely loved it. So even, even the notion of me never watching Top Gun, people just couldn't fathom it. People couldn't fathom that I weren't interested in aircraft. But you would, you'll be working alongside people, right? And there would no air every single aircraft. They would know the tail numbers. And I just weren't, I weren't interested in it. And because I weren't interested in it, I was not pretty good at it. I was average probably. It wasn't the worst, but wasn't the best, never gonna be the best feeling. And I think the way that my, I think the way that I am, some of the traits that I have, I, I don't particularly do very well if I don't, if, if, if I'm not doing the best that I can do, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 00:05:57 So I just kind of shut off. I was not in a particularly good place. I think, don't get me wrong, the first four years were great. Cause when you're 18 to 22, you are basically living like a university lifestyle whilst you were, whilst you were training to be an engineer, but you were getting paid to do it. Unlike, unlike uni. So I, a little bit more money than my friends and could go out a lot. And tho those youth were great, but as you can grow up a little bit, got to 23, I think I got into a relationship and got moved to a, a place that I didn't particularly get on with the, the people because I, I went into like a mix of military and civilian and the civilian people were all kind like 50 plus, but they were all ex military people, all older guys.
Speaker 1 00:06:38 The banks had gone and socials had gone, I didn't like it. And my dad was struggling at the time with some, some mental health things and some, something happened basically where he just can't give me a kick. And I was like, I don't wanna end up like my dad. And I was, I, I just said like, I cannot face doing what I'm doing now for the next however many years. So I was like, I'm literally gonna go and do something in sport. So we're talking, we're probably talking seven years, eight years after Russia. I'd wanted to do it at, at six form and I finally was like, right, I'm gonna do something. Started a sports science degree, got qualified as a personal trainer, did a nutrition qualification and, and basically then just started to learn, start to learn a bit about business. I had some business coaching, learn about marketing resource, some poor more stuff on email marketing. And I was just like, right, if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in and, and go ahead first and know what it's got handed in and just went through
Speaker 0 00:07:35 It. So you kind of covered probably the next question as well and the next two questions. But what, what was the first six months as a, as a PT or online coach? Cause I know your route or your kind of first steps were very different to what most people think they need to do.
Speaker 1 00:07:52 Yeah, so I was, I was pretty convinced that I didn't wanna work in person with, with people. I was pretty, I was pretty set of it because I dunno, I just didn't like, I, I wasn't a, I wasn't very good at taking instruction or taking orders or listening to people that I didn't think would like particularly clever than me.
Speaker 0 00:08:15 So good for the rf. Good for the RF then. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:08:17 Do you know what, not good at all. I would just be like, like why? I'm literally only listening to you because you're older than me. Like how can that be like you, you joined up a year before me. Like, like that. So I, I didn't particularly like it. I was like, I'm gonna be my own boss. I don't wanna, I don't wanna be set by by time, time in the gym for somebody. So on and so forth. At the time, the relationship that was in my partner was actually in a wheelchair. So there was kind of those considerations to make that I didn't want to be out of the house all hours. I had kind of other, I guess, responsibilities to, to think about besides myself. So, so yeah, the first six months were about learning. I used to listen to, I used to get up early, I used to get up at five, I think I used to start work at around eight and I would do some work before I drove to the rf.
Speaker 1 00:09:10 I would then listen to a podcast on the way. I would always have my headphones in whilst I was working. Cause we were allowed to do that. And I would listen to podcasts and I'm probably not joking out the what? Eight eight working hours, nine working hours. I'd probably be listening to podcast for six of it. And that would be, I'd probably say four outta five days a week. I'd probably do that. So I would just listen. I work at weekends and I just graphed people didn't want me to do it, but my dad didn't want me to do it. My boss told me I'd never make anything of it, but only mind. My boss was literally 20 stone started an exaggeration. He was 20 stone and he was the just, it was just met with some friction, which kinda got my back up a little bit and then, yeah, went well.
Speaker 1 00:09:52 Like it, it kind of went well. I, I, I offered up my services, worked with five people, five friends for free. Basically three of 'em ended up doing a photo shoot. One of them ended up doing a show and coming second. So it was, they were quite, you know, good experiences within, within kind of transitioning into coaching. And then obviously, cause I gathered a little bit social proof off the, off the back, I kind of offered my pay services out and I think, I think it took me about a month, month and a half to get somewhere in the region of 30. I don't think it was quite 30, but I think somewhere in the region of, of around 30 clients online.
Speaker 0 00:10:32 Wow. That's Becca. So you've gone straight online. So what do you think of the, you know, a common opinion that some people have, some quite well respected people in the industry have that you have to work on the gym floor and, you know, before going online or in order to be a good online coach?
Speaker 1 00:10:51 I don't think you have to, but I, I do actually think it's wise. I think online coaching, the, the barrier to entry is incredibly low. So a again, obviously I've, I've been doing this for some time and, and whilst I appreciate that my transition in wasn't the stereotypical transition into, into coaching, I do, I do appreciate that. I think it would've set me best there potentially. But at this moment, at, at that point in time where I moved into the industry at 27, so quite late, I'd been at, I'd been around the gym for 10 years. I'd been coaching people. I used to coach the football team, I'd do the nutrition for the football team and the rf. It was my, it was basically my passion. I, all my reading, all my listening was around it. And again, I weren't, you know, I weren't always right.
Speaker 1 00:11:39 And you learn more obviously. And I would say that obviously the, the, the state of the level two, level three qualifications not necessarily that good. Anyway, so, so it's, you know, what I felt like when I went and actually did my qualifications, I was like, okay, well this is quite poor. This is nothing that I didn't already know. Am I, you know, I I I guess I was kind of naive cause I kind of thought, am I, am I actually gonna learn anything by just going in and coaching people, which is pre pretty much what I've just done for the last four or five years with friends, other people that I used to work with. I used to go and help train. Looking back, I probably could have, I probably would say, yeah, I would've learned some stuff, but at the time I didn't. I didn't think I needed, needed to. Yeah, I guess in, in short, there's a short answer. I don't think you need to work in person, but I probably would recommend it.
Speaker 0 00:12:28 Cool. Okay, so you've, you've started working with clients online, it's gone really well. 30 ish clients in, in the first month or so. From, from the, take us from there. Like what, what came next?
Speaker 1 00:12:42 So I, I don't wanna say, I don't wanna say I got spotted cause I don't think that's right. But I was working with Steven Box when he was at Body Time Nutrition and um, he was, he was my coach and they kind of him, he probably highlighted to, to Ben that I might be a useful asset to the, to the team to bring on. And at that, at that moment in time, and I'm not gonna say I don't respect Ben now Ben can with anybody that he doesn't know. I'm referring to Ben, don't respect him now. But at that time, I'd probably listened to near, near enough every podcast that he'd done, he was probably an influencing factor into to why I wanted to do what I wanted to do at that, at that time. So I was like, really, I was thrilled really with it.
Speaker 1 00:13:24 And I was like, wow, like this company that I really respect and literally coached by one of their coaches offered me a job, but we couldn't agree with finances. There was just a few financial things that I, I weren't happy with basically. Cause I would've been going in with the most amount of clients out of all coaches. And the way that the percentage split was done, like it wouldn't have made much sense for me to have, for me to have gone in. But because I'd been around the team, I've met Dan, I've met a few of the others. So Dan, my business partner was, was in the same company. We kind of, we sat down and we were chatting and I kind of convinced the guys to, to, to leave. Steve was a little bit unhappy because Ben had come back with a couple of counter offers financially, which kind of put Steve's nose how to join.
Speaker 1 00:14:07 Cause Steve was the head coach at the time. And, and yeah, I kind of convinced him to leave. So Steve left, done, left and, and Chris guy called, Chris left and we just set up something called Team Box. We used Steve's name because he was kind of like the most senior member, I guess they the most, he had the most followers, he was the most well known. He, you had the most connections. And those four of us, we kind of saw it like a box. The logo was a square cause there was four sides of it. And, and it kinda fit. So we moved into that. We got a couple of other team members, Laura, who's still a friend now joined and another guy joined. But it, it, it became clear that it was quite fractious after about two years. There was just, we were not aligned in what we thought coaching needed to be and what marketing needed to be.
Speaker 1 00:14:53 And there was just, there was just a split really from, from the GetGo. And, and during that period of time, me and Dan had gotten closer. We, we shared a similar sense of humor when I used to travel down to, cause I, I lived up north at the time. I used to travel down to, to do some work with the rest of them. Still lived in Bath. And then I used to stay at his. So we grew closer and we started to put out, we started to put out some videos on Facebook and they started to go quite, quite well for us. And it was pretty much the stuff that we became, oh, I don't, I don't wanna say known for the three people in knows it was, you know, it was, it was, it was in the typical style, like a bit, a bit jovial, a bit sweary, a bit ranty, fitness related stuff on, on Facebook.
Speaker 1 00:15:37 And I remember Phil learning, starting to share it. And I was like, fucking hell, Phil learning. I was like, fuck you. Hell, I've been to a couple of his seminars, really respected him again. I was like, at this moment in time, I was probably only year and a half in to my, to being a, a coach I guess. And I was like, fucking go on. And Phil started to message us. We were in Body Power. He came over to us, was chatting towards, invited us to his house. I was like, fucking hell, I can't believe what's happening here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:16:10 And uh, me and Dan basically off the back of these videos that were going quite well started a, a YouTube channel called ceps and Banta. And we had to call it something different because couple of the guys who were working with didn't want it to be under the brand of Team Bucks because of the, the content of the nature of the content being a little bit sweary a little bit out there. So we, we, we named it by banter. It was kind of like the first name that we landed upon in terms of what kind of did what he said on the tin. And it started to go quite well. And it just became a, a bit of a, not a bone of contention, but I think a couple of the members were a little bit jealous about what we were doing and knew was a little bit of underhand stuff, a little bit of backstabbing that was going on. It was becoming quite toxic. So I just decided to, to leave, there was a conversation around what we, whether we should change the name from ceps and Banter with it being a YouTube channel along Lines coaching. It's a little bit, a little bit fucking cringey. Like, let's be honest, I still fucking cringe. I've gotta give an email address out. It's better than my other ones. Sexy Boy 60
Speaker 0 00:17:12 <laugh>, sexy boy, 69.
Speaker 1 00:17:13 So yeah, we were like, look, do you know what we kind of know for, for this name Again, it's Memor, it is memorable, it's um, Tim. So we kept the name and we just set up on our, on our own. And then it just went from strength to strength. Really
Speaker 0 00:17:28 Amazing. So that we'll talk about business partnership partnerships surely. Cause obviously that's the, the bad experience if you like. Oh yeah, it ended up, but, and now you're kind of in a positive one with Dan. Cool. So you started Biceps and Banter and in terms of what that looks like today or in fact before we talk about what it looks like, like today, you know, what was that like? What was it delivering? What what, what was the service? What was the offer? How did it run?
Speaker 1 00:17:56 Yeah, so it was just me and Dan in the beginning basically just had our own separate clients. So it wasn't necessarily a business, it was essentially two people as soul traders working jobs, but filming videos together, essentially doing the marketing together. And because of like, I guess shared values, shared opinions in the industry, shared them to humor, it became quite easy to create content. I think that's one of the biggest struggles for coaches is knowing what content to make and, um, when you've got partners to, to help you do it with, not only do you get twice the amount of ideas, but it takes, it takes the pressure off you as well to always be the one talking. You can gather your thoughts and respond to something he says and vice versa. But then you have a natural rapport. And I think, yeah, this is why podcasts do quite well.
Speaker 1 00:18:40 I think people like to listening to conversations and that's, that's kind of what we found. So for the first, I dunno how long it was before we brought on Under Coach, probably a year, I'm gonna throw a year out there. The first year it was Dan coaching his clients, me coaching my clients and doing our videos together. So we would put out YouTube video once to twice, maybe a week at times. We would put out Instagram videos together. And that's a, i I guess the extent of it. We got all our branding on our logos, which we'd not had done before. We, you know, we got the color ink done. We wanted to make it quite distinctive and recognizable in terms of like the colorways. We, we made kind of cartoons. We had cartoons made up before everybody started using cartoons or fucking bit or whatever. We had like cartoons made up. It was kind of in line with the jovial aspect of the, the content we were putting out. So yeah, so for about the first year it was, that's what it was. And I think around that time we started to then work with, with you as a, as a mentor. Um, and then it all went to up,
Speaker 0 00:19:38 <LAUGH> turned into a business. So, so prac just rolling it back a little bit, basically for all intents and purposes, it, it was just from the front end, from the, from a public facing perspective, it was a business, a a business partnership or two co-founders of the same business. But the reality from a a legal perspective, it was just, it was two separate businesses, but collaborating on content and using the same branding effectively.
Speaker 1 00:20:07 Absolutely. That, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:20:09 Okay, cool. So it, it did change when we started working together. And I'm not saying that's because of me, but it probably because of what the products were launch. So, so today, my understanding is that you guys still just, you have your own clients and, and that's like from a revenue perspective or operational perspective. You have your clients, Dan has his clients, but then there's this perspective that's shared, which is Blitz, which is your group program and then you know, revenue from your other coaches. Is that right?
Speaker 1 00:20:41 Yeah, that that's right. Yeah. So you were being modest there. It it was, it was down to you that we started to make some, some changes. We had, we had blips, like you say, which is, for those that don't know, which is probably new enough for everybody. It, it's like a group coaching program that we, that we, me and Dan kind of created it, we filmed all the videos, but we sat on it, we sat on it for a little while and it took, kind of sucked to, to, to convince us that it was the right thing to do. You taught us how to, to launch it, how to set up a, a waiting list or a priority list, go through an email long sequence, the exact same sequence. We still use, literally to this day, I think we're, I think we've been using it two and a half years.
Speaker 1 00:21:20 I think Blitz has been going maybe nearly three years, something like that. Two and a half, three years. And yeah, and because we launched that, that gave us greater, uh, amounts of lead generation, which then needed us for another coach fail to satisfy. Cause me and Dan were already full. So then that's where the, I guess the, like, the inception of a business starts to occur. So obviously all of the joint stuff I, the, the blitz and then any coaching revenue that came on from, from, I guess coaches who are part of the team would go into the CEP and banter business, I guess pot. But yeah, me and Dan still do have our own separate clients. We could, we could easily love them into, into one. It would, it would be as simple as a changing the links to a payment system, but it would get a little bit messy cause I've got more clients than Dan and he doesn't wanna, you know, go up to the amount client write so and stuff. So it would be a bit messy. But yeah, we, we've got like a separate entity I guess that's operating independent to our personal stuff. I think
Speaker 0 00:22:20 Just on the number of clients, this is something that obviously I, I told you off for plenty, never listened to any point.
Speaker 1 00:22:26 Don't ask, don't ask.
Speaker 0 00:22:28 It's something that, one of the really common questions that I get is how many clients could I work with? It's a terrible question because in theory, fucking hundreds like bought the, the payoff may not be worth it. How many clients do you have, Mike? And how do you feel about that?
Speaker 1 00:22:49 Oh yeah, I have, lemme just get my thing up. Oh, 117. But you have
Speaker 0 00:22:55 117 one-to-one online clients, correct?
Speaker 1 00:22:59 Yeah. And half of them, over half of them are now coaches, which takes more time than a Factless client. And I've got about nine calls booked in next week as well. So my opinion on that is, it is way too much. Me knowing that the logical brain and suck telling me that and Dan telling me that. And even enough my miss is telling me that, and everybody telling me that I'm, I'm current, I'm currently having therapy, right for the way that I am with stuff. I have a real big fear of not being good enough, which is pretty much translated throughout the entirety of my life. Be it business, be it relationships, confidence. I've got this real, real fear of it. Like, and that's the thing that drives me, and I don't know why, but I can't seem to shake this thing of being in competition with just trying to be better and be better and be better.
Speaker 1 00:23:58 And the, again, the logical brain takes over and goes, well, better is better. More is not necessarily better because you could go, well, if I stripped all those clients back, I could probably give more time to each client and then that would be in turn better. And I know, and I know that, but it's, it feels like I'm wrestling a little bit with myself in terms of being able to, to do it. So it's, I'm not gonna say it's tough or it's worries me or anything like that, but it's, it is a struggle that I have because it, I think it's deeper than me just taking on clients. It's from my own fear. I, I think my own fear of losing everything, my fear of not being good enough, my fear of disappointing people. So it, it does run a little bit deeper than I'm just gonna take next to my clients.
Speaker 1 00:24:43 So th those are my own personal hangups, which I'm trying to work through. So for any coaches that listen in, I would definitely say if you're given a good service, going up to this amount of this, my clients is horrific because in the last six months, struggle with anxiety burn, incredible amounts of stress. So like the smallest things that will go wrong will have a disproportionate, I'll have a disproportionate reaction to them, but it's because my stress, it's almost like stress levels are here and my, my tipping point is there and it feels like I'm just operating there all the time because I'm trying to look after X amount of people. And then when you start to coach coaches, you then have an additional pressure because their livelihood, their families, this kind of weighs on you a little bit. So it feels like there's just an an incredible amount of stress that's, that's on me.
Speaker 1 00:25:36 So I would say that that is probably too much in the capacity in which I coach. So the capacity in which I coach is a video checking from the client every week. So it's not a type form, it's a video checking. So sometimes I might literally be sat there watching a video for 15 to 20 minutes and then a video checking back from me, which again can be 15, 20 minutes. It's been known sp was to 40, 45 minutes when needed the availability to book a call whenever they like basically out of these things of wanting to give so much because I fear people thinking I'm not giving enough. Like, so I feel like it's so strange. I feel like I've gotta be operating, like I feel like me working harder is a thing that's gonna help this fear, but it's not. And again, it's something that I'm definitely trying to work through.
Speaker 1 00:26:23 I think in a reduced capacity. I think if you did text check-ins, type form check-ins, voice note check-ins, I think that's probably quite manageable. I've actually got a client at the moment who's got similar amounts of clients, his coaching services, maybe not where ours is, I'd say at the moment, I think you would probably agree with that. And I think he gets through his in about five hours for the lot. So for that cool, but for the way that I do it too, too much. But we have made some changes to the business next year in terms of not necessarily the amount, but the frequency of check-ins are gonna be changing for us next year.
Speaker 0 00:27:00 Yeah, I think from a obviously your, your situation is very specific and the issues that you are facing with trying to reduce the clients, reduce the amount of work. I think a lot of coaches worry that more clients equals worse service. They just make our generalization. I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is as, as you said, it's just a miserable existence, right? That's the payoff. It's not a depleted quality of service, it's your life is going to be impacted if you go up to that amount of clients. Would you agree?
Speaker 1 00:27:35 100%. And again, I don't want it to be a woe is me time thing cuz it's, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm really, really, really grateful for every, every, every person that pays me their hard-earned money. And that trusts me. I'm incredibly grateful for. But you don't have much time for life and you find yourself not being present in the times that you do set aside because you are always switched on. You're always thinking about something else. You're thinking about this person you've gotta set up or this person you've gotta get back to, or this or that or the other. So actually you don't enjoy the, the, the small amount of time that you do get to yourself because you, you're currently, you know, elsewhere I guess. So, and again, there's a reason why I'm fucking the Payless money to buy, right? I'm being the fucking easiest office.
Speaker 1 00:28:21 I I might as well be anywhere I, I could be, I could literally be anywhere. So again, these are things that are plain on my mind because there's the whole why do you, why do you grow in business to earn more money, but you don't necessarily want more money. It's, it's like when someone goes, I wanna lose two stone, you don't wanna lose two stone. You want the things that come from losing two stone, the confidence, being able to be seen without your, your clothes on fitting in clothes better, not worrying about your photo taken. It's, it's those things that you want. You don't actually want a number. So you kind of go, well money is not really a, a thing. You want the things that money can get you. For me it was, its perceived safety, security, which it, which it is, don't get me wrong. And to, to give myself a better life. But then you kind of look at it and go, well I've probably actually got a worse life the bigger that the business has got. And my therapist asked me this when I was happiest. I was like probably earning about eight grand a month doing two days a week filming videos with Dan Balance. I couldn't do other stuff outside of it. I wanted to fucking play golf with you stuff. But I don't have any time though. I'm fucking dreadful. And it's demoralizing.
Speaker 0 00:29:36 I mean, you can't blame the lack of time. I'm being dreadful <laugh>, you know, just going back to that story about being good at everything in school. N not a single part of me believes that. I've seen you from a golf club
Speaker 1 00:29:46 To know, to know what I, I was good at stuff, but the stuff that I'm not good at this thing about not being good enough, I just don't, I, I don't do. So I wasn't very good at swimming, I just didn't do it. I had this like, I'm, I'm just, I have this like if I, if I can't do it or see myself being, and, and, but by no means do I think I'm the best at anything cause I don't think that at all. But if I, if I know that I just, I'm not gonna be even considered good at something, I just just, I just stop it. I just stopped doing it. And that's kind of happened with golf because I was like, I didn't have, I didn't have, I genuinely didn't have the time to devote. I see how much time that you and Dan spent playing golf. Dan's done the fucking driving range every fucking night. But I don't have that amount of time cause I'm working and then I wanna spend the, the time with, with obviously my, my partner. So I'm never gonna be good. And that feeling of not being anywhere near where I would need to be is just, it takes any fun out of doing it, if that makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:30:44 Yeah. A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 00:30:45 Don't do it. But you, you wait until actually when I've got more time. So
Speaker 0 00:30:50 <laugh>, when you've reduced those client numbers to 112, that's
Speaker 1 00:30:54 It. Now we're doing every other week <inaudible>. So I'm gonna have a four week.
Speaker 0 00:31:00 Yeah. Okay. So where's the business today then? Just gimme a a a very quick overview. Obviously we, we've covered it a little bit, but where is the business today? What does it do? So
Speaker 1 00:31:11 Yeah, so me and Dan still working with our, our clients I guess, which is probably, like I said, maybe a 50% split of coaches helping them with their coaching delivery, coaching service and I guess social media and business and things. Then we still have obviously some fat loss nutrition training type our clients as well. We then got four coaches who run our group coaching program blitz and then have their own clients as well. So I think, yeah, they're, they're kind of roughly around the, the between 30 and I wanna say 45, 50 client mark, each of those guys. Uh, we have a copywriter, we have a guy who runs our social media for our group coaching a age we, yeah, we're about, that's, that's where we're at. I think that's about it.
Speaker 0 00:32:00 So a long way from where things have started. Lots of progress, lots of success, lots of changes, lots of challenges still as well, obviously as we've just covered, what what advice would you give to someone who is listening to his podcast and thinks, you know, I wanna emulate your success or the success of biceps and banter? Just a high level bit of advice. I
Speaker 1 00:32:23 Would say strap him because it's gonna be harder than you think. Well
Speaker 0 00:32:26 You can't tell people that, mate. You're allow to tell people you have to work hard, you have to work smart. He means,
Speaker 1 00:32:31 Yeah, what works smart and hard. Honest, honest to god, this works smart. This leverage coach shit, I actually got posted cause I was like, you, you know what leverage coach is, don't you? No,
Speaker 0 00:32:42 I I purposely avoid everything.
Speaker 1 00:32:46 So there, there's this an AI kind of like software where people fill out a Typeform and the AI will tell them whether they need a checkin or not off their coaches. It's
Speaker 0 00:32:53 Not ai is it? It's just logic based Typeform.
Speaker 1 00:32:56 Oh yeah. Where well, yeah, and there's like a certain mentorship that pushes it and I ba and I slide it off obviously because I don't think that it's proper coaching, you know, cause it's not in my opinion anyway. And my post got shared inside the mentorship and you ought to see the amount of coaches who've been in the industry, three minutes going on, his business won't last if he doesn't use leverage code not knowing anything about what's happened, you know? But, uh, but, but yeah, like it's, it's sexy to say you can earn more money and do less. That's the thing. It's, it is like when the whole eat more, lose more fat came out, of course that's sexier. But in reality we all know you've gotta eat less. That's what's gonna help you lose more fat. And it's the same thing with business. And one thing I will say is that I, I watched an Elon Musk documentary about three weeks ago, right?
Speaker 1 00:33:46 You go into an Elon Musk documentary fully expecting to see the guy doing three plus nines working his fucking nuts off. You know, if you'd had turned up to the documentary and it would've been like, yeah, he only works like four hours a week. There would be something, it wouldn't quite marry up. So like even common sense would suggest that there's got to be an element of, of working hard before even working smart. Even, you know, this work life balance even needs to come to, to fruition. So like one thing for coaches that wanna I guess emulate what what we've done is, and by the way, it's entirely possible. Like it's, it's entirely possible. Be prepared to work harder than you were expecting to, uh, be prepared to make some sacrifices. And then as the cheeky little second, I would say be yourself. Stop, stop thinking that you need to be in an online coach mold. Be yourself, be authentic with that and don't deviate from it. Work hard. Be yourself and that's it, I would say. And obviously be a, be a great coach. But I guess that comes under the, the, the umbrella of working hard. I would say those two things.
Speaker 0 00:34:55 Okay. And obviously that, that moves on nicely into, into kind of a lot of what you are doing at the minute, which is education, support, mentoring or other coaches. So why did you guys move into that? What triggered that?
Speaker 1 00:35:11 It was kind of like a natural progression. So like we, we'd been doing fat loss and nutrition for quite a while. We were kind of starting to, I guess get known for like photo shoot style transformations. We were putting a good number of clients through photo shoots each year, which attracted more, more and more coaches. So I think I might have been coaching 20, 25, maybe 30 coaches in terms of fat loss nutrition. And then with the way that we do our check-ins, we give them free rein to talk about stuff and they would ask, they start to ask us about, oh I've, if you don't mind, I've got a client that that's a little bit like this. Have you ever seen 'em, you know, what we do in this situation? Or they might ask us about social media and things like that. And we, we found ourselves answering those questions anyway with our current clients and the fact that we obviously were bringing on coaches under our brand and we learned a lot from doing that.
Speaker 1 00:36:02 We fucked up quite a lot in listening to sus advice periods of times with SOPs and stuff, which we should have listened to. We fucked up and we learned some things. And again, we were starting to see trends with, with what things were being successful and what people needed help with. Um, we were just like, right, there is nothing out there that teaches how to be a good online coach and how to promote itself as an online coach. Really what we saw is there's people getting qualified as a pt, teaching people how to be a bt but there's nothing really teaching people to be an online coach. Our view of mentorships were not particularly good ones because we felt that they were just groups with generic information in there like that you could implement at your own wealth with no real accountability. And we were like, there, there's, there's something in this.
Speaker 1 00:36:49 Like there's something in teaching people how to get results, how to have a proper onboarding system, how to market their services. I think the diff the, the differentiating factor of, I think what you did for us, I wouldn't classify you as mention was I would say that, that you were, we worked with you on almost like a consultation basis, which is something again that I think is needed when you are at a certain point where you just, you don't necessarily need to be tracking stuff and you don't need a weekly check-in that, a chat each month with how me and you works. I, I don't necessarily know how you do things now, but I think we used to chat once a month I think for like an hour. And that's all me and Dan needed. Cause we, we had enough knowledge to go and implement the things that you were asking us to do, but we kind of saw that little middle ground between that of like, there's nothing that we could see that was doing what we were doing.
Speaker 1 00:37:36 So we were like, let's coach coaches, we, we, we didn't wanna be mentors or, you know, put people into a mentorship. We literally transposed what we were doing with fat loss clients into coaching coaches. So we set up weekly check-ins, video check-ins, we track data just the same as we would do with, with fat loss clients that said it wasn't protein, carbs, fat looking steps, calories anymore. It was, it was other elements we felt in a good position to be able to critique content. We felt in a good position to be able to just teach people the things that we had done really and not really deviating much from that. And it, it was all, it was more so about in the beginning getting people results with their clients, but then more people come in and he realized that market, but he's got the amount of clients that they need to be able to get results. So it just kind of, it kind of grew from there. Does, does that kind of make sense?
Speaker 0 00:38:27 Yeah, a hundred percent. It's, it's the path most people should go on when they try and become an educator or a business mentor. Over the past six years I get a lot of people coming to me like, you know, I wanna be a business mentor. How do I start, how do I get clients? I'm like, you don't, people will start coming to you once they see your success or they see what you are doing, then you'll just naturally get people coming to you. It's how I started, like I started posting content of probably the reality of being an online coach. Obviously this was years probably before, I don't even know if you would've been online coaching then in like 2016. Yeah. You were, weren't you by then? Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:39:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was starting in 20, 20 13 or 2014. One of the two. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:39:10 So in 2016 I'd started posting content about the reality of online coaching because back then it was all do nothing, make money. Like you don't have to do any work, just, you know, add clients to this plan charging three grand, right? That that was it. So people started coming to me cuz I was like, no, this is what my online coaching has looked like for the past few years. Here's the reality of it. Here's how to coach clients, here's how to get clients and people start coming to me and that's how most people start as you have as well. So our journey's been pretty similar. I was probably triggered into doing it through people seeing my success and me hating what else was out there and speaking out about it. Which I know obviously you and Dan do as much probably, if not more than I ever did. I've definitely mellowed. You guys are still at it. So what's the worst thing that you've seen or heard about, you know, the way things are done by other trainers or mentors programs or just
Speaker 1 00:40:07 There's, there's a lot of bad things. If I'm being completely, I don't necessarily like the model. I, I, you know, it the same people that used to slide off people giving out meal plans to 300 people and getting inevitably 40 or 50 results out of the people at the meal plans. And there was this big argument over everything needs to be bespoke and so on. Which it does because you've gotta get a high percentage success rate. The same people are now literally just doing that in a business format. They're putting out generic framework template stuff and basically selling it for a excruciating amount of money. And it's not bespoke, it, it's not guaranteed success like they tell you is that's the thing is that they, they, they, there's lies. I think that the, the deceit I think is probably the thing that, yeah, that really riles me up.
Speaker 1 00:40:59 The, the, the false promises, the high pressure sales tactics. I've heard, I've heard of stuff like one guy reached out to me about a, a mentor that was like, uh, pounced on the fact that he got some inheritance money cause his mom had died and they said, your mom would be proud of you making a business. So it's probably why I suspended it on something that's gonna better yourself, which I think is horrendous. One guy said that when he tried to leave a mentorship, they basically wouldn't let him, basically wouldn't let him leave. He was racking up debt. He ended up about 21,000 pounds in debt, racking up debt, trying to leave, ended up having to block them on social media to which people working for the brand set up numerous fake accounts, hounded him, basically said that they were gonna make sure that he didn't get anywhere in fitness, they were gonna ruin his credit rating and make sure he wouldn't ever get a mortgage and basically just went after him.
Speaker 1 00:41:49 And it's stuff like that where you're just like, it has really become a pack of walls where, where has it gone from wanting to help people. It's not about wanting to help people anymore. It's about how much money can, can somebody make. And that's horrific. Like it's horrific because these are like real people. And just as we would be upset before about people being put on a meal plan and starved into a fucking disordered relationship with food, it, it's now like you're talking, I've, I've honestly spoke to probably over over 10 people that have got at least 10,000 pounds off of debt and more like, and those are just the people that have felt the need to come up and talk to me about it and their financial situation. There's gonna be loads more and you think these people are supposedly gonna be helping people and doing ridiculous things to their business and they're just false.
Speaker 1 00:42:45 Like they're f it is false promises and, and lies. And that's the like the, the dirty side of things that, that really does wind me up a bit. And that's where, like you say our content comes from. Cause that's where our content used to come from with fitness. It was about the hero villain marketing. It was, it was, uh, calling out the, the, the stuff where we had fucked up where, you know, I had fucked up where I'd taken wrong advice and, and things like that. That's, that's where it came from with nutrition and training was like how, you know, be the person that I wish I'd have found in my early twenties when I was fucking doing four hour workouts thinking I was sensitive to carbs and feeling like a by a soup still. That's how I wanted to coach. I wanted to be the person I would've found. And it's the same thing now. I would wanna be, I I, you know, that I'm molding it off, off, off that basically I'm not thinking, well what would I have wanted at certain stages of my career. And I've been lucky that I've had Dan because it's almost similar in a way. But, uh, yeah, I'd say that side of things is the most disturbing to me.
Speaker 0 00:43:52 Yeah, I think the, the, I think a lot of it, like if you remove the marketing and and terrible sales tactics and obviously those retention tactics you just mentioned, if it was just it's videos in a, like if people marketed it for what it was then fine, right? And priced it for what it was fine. But there's such a gap between how it's marketed, solved and what it actually is. I think that's the issue. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:44:17 Like, like you said, I would've no problem if it was like we got this video library, we have, you know, calls three, four times a week. You can ask questions in the group. That's how it's marketed. Cool. Cause that's what it's like. But it's the, this is one-to-one coaching incorrect. It's not, if you don't get returned in your money or doubled return in your investment, we will give you money back. You don't, you know, you, you don't. That's a lie as well. And then the whole falsifying of their own figures, there's one mentorship that was telling pe telling their clients to falsify their social proof. So say that your, uh, tra they, they were saying basically it was written into, into a stock document that they give out as part of like the library. If a, if a result is taking you x amount short that amount of time.
Speaker 1 00:45:06 Cause people want results quicker. If you think you are telling the coaches to do that. So what are they doing with their own social proof? Like, and it would be easy to falsify it. I could literally text myself now and say, I've made x amount of money and I've had this amount of science, I could literally do it now. And I, I'm convinced that there's people doing that. And I'm also convinced that I know for a fact that people are making up their own revenue figures and they're using lies and deception to sell people into very expensive things that they can't get outta very expensive contracts. Five grand, 10 grand. And it's, it's appalling. Like it's, it's is what it's
Speaker 0 00:45:50 So is the plan for biceps and banter to kind of grow your, you know, business. I don't want to put it in a, in a bucket, but business education, mentoring, coaching is the plan for that to, to scale and kind of try and combat that as best as you can and, and get people away from that towards your own.
Speaker 1 00:46:08 We're basically gonna get 500 people in a group. So I can charge with 10 grand being the uh, <inaudible> kinda thing now. So, so the plan is to reduce the amount of hours is one which we've done. So next year we're implementing like an every other week basis. We sat down and kind of looked at the limitations and the bottleneck is time and it's our time. And this is only with coaches. We were like, actually do coaches need an every week check-in? And we were like, no, we do think that they need check-ins cause they wanna be held account held accountable. Certainly the ones that we work with and we wanna be hands-on. But from trialing it out, we try two systems where we had x amount of clients on every, every week and x amount on every other week. And we didn't really find any difference.
Speaker 1 00:46:49 In fact the every other week was less overwhelming for the coach because as you as you know, something doesn't need to change any business every week. So we've changed it down to every other week and the weeks in between we'll be given more in terms of group calls and providing more things. So we were getting, we were getting questions like how do I set up a landing page and how do I do this and how do I do that? And us being honest, if we need, knew we needed to self a landing page, we'd figure out how to do it. But we wanna be able to provide that camera stuff as well, which we just don't have time for doing so with check-ins. So we've kind of gone like, right, okay, how can we change the service that we provide to not really take away from the the service but give additional things that are gonna help with the implementation of the things that we're asking them to do at check-ins.
Speaker 1 00:47:34 So the first step is that it's also gonna allow us to create more content. We're gonna have more time to be able to devote to it. So we're gonna increase the amount of content that we put out on YouTube and Instagram because neither of us have particularly big followings and it's not necessarily about the following, but the more coaches and more eyes that we can get on our page, me and that man and Dan's pages, then obviously the better. We're not necessarily gonna scale in terms of numbers, we're probably gonna scale in terms of price I would say it's never gonna be anything. I don't believe where it's gonna be astronomical figures. We already earn good amounts of money as it is and we've already kind of established that more money doesn't necessarily mean more happiness. So that's kind of something that we need to think about when planning for the future.
Speaker 1 00:48:19 We have made a few changes to the way that we're running blitz. We've shortened a space of time down so that we can actually run more. And we started with some influencer marketing, so we've got our coaches, so we basically want to grow that side. That's again, probably, I would say the more scalable side to the business because it's requiring less hours for me and Dan. So that side of things are probably the most scalable. So still the fat loss, the nutrition side of things, whereas mine and dam's coaching, it's probably gonna be like, I guess what what you do or have done is probably more, it's just an add-on, an extra isn't it? Like to the main gig. I think that's the way that I see it. And um, at some stage probably not, maybe not being fitness at all at some stage. Can't see it being in the next, how old am I? I'm 34. I can't see it being, I'd like to think by early forties I might not be in fitness, I'd say.
Speaker 0 00:49:14 Yeah. Which is something a lot of people don't admit, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking, looking elsewhere. Absolutely. Okay mate, are you ready for some, some finishing questions?
Speaker 1 00:49:27 Yeah, always.
Speaker 0 00:49:30 Right. Why did you move to Dubai? Because
Speaker 1 00:49:33 You'd moved there.
Speaker 0 00:49:34 I was going to, I was going to make a joke about what else are you gonna copy from me, but did for me
Speaker 1 00:49:40 First he was locked down in the uk it was miserable and we came on holiday because it was the only place that weren't lockdown came on holiday. I think. I think I must have heard about you moving. I'm pretty sure we might have had a conversation about it and I think it just sparked a discussion between me and me and Am so AMS might miss and she's actually from an Arabic family as well, which I, I don't wanna say is a deciding factor, but I think it added to things as well, like being around the culture. She can, she can read right Arabic speak it, not that you necessarily need it here, but it, I guess it was something that was a consideration, the weather and then the big thingt like not gonna skate skirt around. The fact that the way, the way that I think the UK is maybe set up is it's, it's incredibly difficult is is obviously, you know, to grow as a, what is essentially a small business.
Speaker 1 00:50:31 It's really, really tough to, to grow and in a binary format of asking the question, can the business grow better if you are not being bound by the tax laws of the uk? The answer is yes and the answer will be yes to every business. So I'd be lying if you said that weren't a contributing factor cuz it, it is the good benefit. So yeah, I would say that those things and then since being here, tax is great, but the weather's great. The, the exposure to it to almost like how, how can I put this? Almost like the, the atmosphere of like success. Yeah. Do you know why the the, it's almost like, cause it's such a forward move in place, it feel there's a different feel to it than, than Britain. And I absolutely love Britain and I will end up in Britain by the way, but there's like a different feel and it is almost like inspiring to be around this environment as that, as its sounds.
Speaker 1 00:51:33 And so I like that about it. There's obviously lots of nice things to do as well. There's lots to see and obviously I'm really grateful I've been able to to, to see a lot of these things. But yeah, those are the reasons why it's a really nice place to, to come from not being, it is more than just the influencer stuff as well. That's, that's like a picture that's painted I think if, if you're in certain areas is correct, but when you live there you kind of realize that you can live kind of like a normal life as well and not hard about, but yeah, so that's the reasons why I've been for Dubai and, and basically to set ourselves up for the future. Like to get us heads down to work for x amount of years and, you know, to, to save, to reinvest, to, yeah to, to basically help out the rest of the rest of our life and to help those around us as well.
Speaker 0 00:52:22 Amazing. What, what name something that you hate about the industry.
Speaker 1 00:52:29 Fucking hell. Besides the mentoring life that I've just spoke about. Say bad coaching. I'm gonna stick to my roots and just say really poor, bad coaching. Disregard to your client being an or human, sticking them on anything. Being okay with giving them something that's generic, taking their money off them. Not being punctual with with your response times. Like, just, just bad coaching people. Getting into it for a quick book, thinking that it's easy thinking cause stay like the gym, that they're gonna be a successful line coach, but not actually having the client at the, at the, the forefront of, of their mind when they're, when they're growing a business or wanting to run a business. Cause that's like, that's like everything that we wanted to do. Like I said, the reason why I wanted to get into this was a, I really enjoyed sport growing up, but b I wanted to be the person.
Speaker 1 00:53:19 So like in my early twenties, used to hate how I looked, hated it. And I was always, I was always on a diet, I was always watching how I looked. Didn't like, didn't like how I, I looked at all just following poor advice. I'm not, I wasn't joking, I said four hour training sessions. I used to train for like four hours. I would only brown, brown, round brown pastor. I would have a cheat day. I would be spending money I didn't have on supplements. Like I'm talking like glutamine c all of the classics. I was skipp, I ended up in fucking debt. Not cause of supplement, but I ended up in debt at that time cause I'd no money. What sure that spending money on things that weren't necessary were a contributing factor. And I was just looking for a poor advice. I, I had some bad coaching once, ended up not having an erection for six months after it.
Speaker 1 00:54:04 Cause I was basically ran into the ground. Testosterone just bottomed out. I was basically being coached like I was assisted when I wasn't assisted. And yeah, I, I wanted, I got, I got into it to be able to help people like to be able to, to, to change people's lives. To give 'em the confidence that I wish that I'd had and just the amount of coaches that don't have that. And I don't, I don't expect everybody to have that. But I almost feel like that should be, you should be like empathetic as a coach. You should have a certain set of traits that, that have led you into this job. It seems like people coming in that are in it because they're like fucking hell. There's one person in the mentorship that I heard of and it's, it's a girl. She's not even a qualified coach.
Speaker 1 00:54:45 She's not qualified as a pt, not qualified as nutritious, nothing. And the, the mentorship is telling her to charge a thousand pounds for three months up front and she's got clients and she's having to ask how to set people's macros in the group. She's had to outsource her training. And you just think that's horrendous. But think of the people that pay 'em a thousand pounds, you think, yeah, these are people that have some issues, that have some confidence issues, that have trusting somebody and paid their money and they're just being, and now it's okay to just give people shit. Like it's not okay to, it's not, it's not okay. So that honestly I have such like a strong like emotional thing about stuff like that. I think that's what, that's one of the things that does drive me I guess with definitely the content and the way that we do our, our stuff as well. But yeah, bad coaching and bad mentoring basically.
Speaker 0 00:55:42 What's the biggest mistake you see or the coaches making?
Speaker 1 00:55:47 Not not being themselves thinking that they've got to fit into a mold of I need to post how to make a chicken burrito and under four ingredients using food from ing. Like get a grip. You don't need to do that. So thinking that there's a set way, a set mold and try and looking over the garden fence or what the next online coach is doing and copying them. The easiest way to blend in is by copying everyone around you marking. You need to stand out. The way to stand out is by being yourself. Cause there's only one of you. Don't do that. Do that part and you'll be okay. Even if you are a twat like me, probably you'll, because the internet's so big, you'll attract 30 other tracks
Speaker 0 00:56:27 <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:56:28 You know, hey, even if you're boring, play on it. The no ego, no fluff and no fucking dancing on TikTok coach who just is here to simply get your results. Play on that. You'll get 30 other people that that want that. But the problem is, is that everybody helps busy professionals who want to get in the shape of their lives without giving up the foods that they love. Pizza energy. And then they've just got these recipes fucking, they've just got recipes on the page. Be a fucking cook then like recipes and just shit fucking content where they're quite clearly looking at what other people are doing going, this is all be successful. No it ain't. So in a nutshell, be yourself.
Speaker 0 00:57:09 And then to finish on a positive note, what's one thing that you love about the industry,
Speaker 1 00:57:14 The change and impact that you can make to somebody's life? Hands down trumps everything. Probably a cliche answer probably everybody's gonna answer that one. I'm saying but what feeling is like I've helped people get pregnant. Not firsthand. Not directly how
Speaker 0 00:57:30 Many people, right?
Speaker 1 00:57:31 Yeah. Load. Yeah, no, I've helped people get pregnant. I've got 1 1, 1 girl who's lost I think something like 60 kilos with me. Some of the things that she says about how her life has changed is incredible. To the point where I've actually cried on check-ins. Like because of the things that she said about how the, she never felt as though anybody really took us seriously. Cause she was just a fat one. She never owned a full length mirror. Like she didn't wanna go out the house and stuff. And just to see how she's changed her life around. And there's been definitely other cases like that across the years. Like those feelings have been able to know that there's been a lasting impression on someone for good. Brilliant. Like brilliant.
Speaker 0 00:58:16 Yeah, I love that. That's a nice high note to finish on me. So if people wanna find you, where should they go?
Speaker 1 00:58:22 Mike Biceps banter on Instagram and we've got a YouTube channel as well called Biceps and Banter. There you go.
Speaker 0 00:58:29 Funnily enough. Amazing. Mike, it's been a pleasure. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 00:58:32 Thank you for on me.
